2 friends of mine (one is a professional boat finisher) actually spent time on their boats when it was raining to find leaks that had been elusive otherwise. They reported success.
Ken Julian
“Idyll Ours” N26C#9
Saint John, NB
Good point, Ken.
As it turns out, that’s what’s on my agenda for today, too.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
Hiya Rebecca -
When the boat was in the water, the bilge was almost dry, right ? Do you think that was because, in fact, the automatic bilge pump was “keeping her dry” when, in fact, she’d take on rainwater (not sea water) ? Now that she is on the hard, is the auto bilge pump still on ?
Next - Until she is covered, the only difference is that the mast is out, leaving a big hole, that is absolutely and totally covered, right ? Or … maybe not quite as covered as we think ? Is there any evidence of leakage in the mast step area, on the floor ?? If you stick your head in that compartment and look directly up at the underside of the mast collar (and the deck), is water leaking in there ?
On my NS22, there are 2 scuppers on the cockpit floor that drain any water in the lower cockpit, out to sea. If the bow is up and the stern down, water would even drain faster and I don’t know if there would be any area where water would actually accumulate and not drain. Does your boat have these scuppers ??
Next - Go ahead and laugh but Sandra and I once rented a steel canal/houseboat in Holland. It held 1000 litres of drinking water in one tank. One morning, onboard, we awoke and put our feet into 5 inches of water. The tank had sprung a leak and the boat was “sinking from the inside out”.
Is there any chance at all that your boat is the victim of indiscriminate power washing that is occurring in the yard ?? Could it be getting the odd blast ??
This is, indeed, a conundrum as the only difference in your boat is the mast hole (that is plugged … we all assume). To have gallons of water in the bilge when the vessel is high and … uh … dry is weird, to say the least. IF the problem disappears when the cover is on, well … that is even weirder.
Good luck.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Hi Rebecca,
Thinking of leaks that I have found (and fixed) in the stern area of my NS30C over the past couple of years, these included the push pit bases, the engine compartment blower vent cowls, the binnacle guard base, and the port and starboard cockpit drains (where the hose attaches to the drain fitting). I also resealed all the gunwale coaming screws as a preventative measure.
Good luck tracking down the leak source(s).
Mike
NS30C
Port Moody BC
Watching for leaks in the rain. The fun never stops when you have a boat, Bob!
Ken Julian
“Idyll Ours” N26C#9
Saint John, NB
Rebecca, what model auto pilot do you have? I am interested in installing an below deck one. Tired of noisy wheel pilot
Bill Evans Companionship #465 30U Galesville
Thank you for your replies everyone. I appreciate everyone’s advice. I am headed to the yard tomorrow to again try to figure this out. I’m still working for a living so timing exactly with heavy rainfall has not been possible. I may attempt a "movie scene” rainfall with a hose if need be to get to the bottom of this.
While I have had the boat for about 20 years now, this is my first year alone without my late Husband and there are things that I just have not had to deal with before so I may not have all of the correct terminology but I am learning.
Bob: These are the cowls I speak of at the stern of the boat. (And the world’s most epic boat cat, Barney.) The yard installed these for us some years ago and I am very suspicious that they are not bedded properly. The inner edges of holes through the deck appear to have been properly sealed at one point and I did notice that it needs to be redone. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw the water running down them.
Ernie: The bilge was bone dry all summer actually so no need for the bilge pump to come on. Mast hole is covered and dry paper towels placed forward in the bilge remained dry after rainfall. I wish it had been that easy. I do have the cockpit floor drains and they are flowing freely with no leaking from the hoses.
Mike: Where are the blower vent cowls located? I have not had to locate them before. Is the gunwale coaming the rubber type strip along the exterior edge of the deck where the deck and hull come together? She was in the slip for some pretty heavy wind for 3 days in late September just before hauling and I had to tighten the lines to get her away from the dock. I am a bit worried that the strain may have pulled on or separated something in the stern.
Sincerely,
Rebecca
“Tessa” N30C #11
Watch Hill
Looking at those vents, Rebecca, I don’t see anything to prevent rain from getting in. I’m surprised a boat yard would install that system.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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[/details]Rebecca -
I think that it would have to have been a South Asian monsoon with sideways blowing rain for 7 gallons of water to have entered and trickled down from those cowl vents.
Y’know … I have a funny feeling that Barney may know more about all of this than he might be letting on. I’d try to pry the truth out of him.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Rebecca,
Great picture, and Barney’s a beautiful cat!
The"blower vent cowls" that Mike referred to are the same as what I was calling the “clamshell” vents. The vertical surface directly behind Barney is called the cockpit coaming (the other side being the cockpit seat backs). You’ll typically find the clamshells on the port and/or starboard sides of the cockpit coaming, mounted at about a 45-degree angle. Here’s a link to an example:
https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|6880|2290139|2290140&id=1816540
Resealing your stern cowl vents is not a big job if the water hasn’t damaged the plywood core of the deck. You can get some epoxy paste and put a coat of it all the way around the hole to seal the wood. The vents are screwed into the deck. You’ll get a dozen different – and equally good – ideas about the best way to seal fittings. Mine would be to unscrew the vents, clean them and the deck area, put something called “butyl tape” around the bottom of the vents, and screw them back in until you see the tape being squeezed out all around. You then cut away the excess. (Butyl tape is a slightly sticky rubbery material about an 1/8th inch thick. You can get it in rolls of 20 feet for $25 at a boating store or buy 50 ft. for $6-7 at Home Depot, usually in the roofing department. It cuts easily with a knife or scissors.)
Even if the water’s done some damage to the plywood core, it’s still not that big a deal. It just entails digging out the rotted wood until you get to good wood (usually less than half an inch) and drilling the screw holes in the deck a bit bigger. Fill those gaps with epoxy paste, and then you’re back to the butyl tape.
The way those two cowl vents are oriented is very unlikely to take water when the boat’s on the water, because a boat in motion rarely gets hit by water from behind. In a boatyard, things can be different. If, for example, there’s a boat in the yard directly behind yours that’s getting hosed down without paying attention to your boat, that alone could do it.
Ironically, going back to the cute pic of Barney the cat, I didn’t get to my boat today to check on my own leaks. I blame Arlo the dog. He got bored being cooped up in the rain and proceeded to pull out and chew up an entire roll of plastic doggy poop bags. Had to deal with that, instead. Score one for the cat lovers of the world.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
Thanks for the pic, Rebecca - cute crew!
That’s an interesting setup on the stern with the dual electrical connections and the cowls. Never seen that before, not that I’m any measure. If that were my boat my main sheet would constantly catch on those - especially on a jibe.
I installed a few things bilge-related on my boat:
- Skippers Boat Bilge Pump Counter, Flush Mount, Multi Voltage, 12,24,32 https://a.co/d/jcBMtD0
- Skippers Bilge High Water Alarm with Loud Bell Bilge Warning, 12 Volt https://a.co/d/4Z0jfql
- MySpool Water Level Alert with Text Message and Email Notifications, Battery Powered with a Float Sensor https://a.co/d/0Cc0gJR
These things won’t help fix the leaks, but they are good to have in case your bilge pump fails.
Bob Gehrman
NS30U #396, “Quickbeam”
Baltimore, Maryland
Hi Bill -
You might be interested in my below-deck Raymarine autopilot installation I did last winter. It’s on the INA site here :
https://nonsuch.org/Members-tips-and-projects
It is fantastic - so nice, and so quiet! Works so much better in all points of sail.
Bob Gehrman
NS30U #396, “Quickbeam”
Baltimore, Maryland
Thank you Bob, Ernie, and Joe. I certainly hope your dog is alright Bob. Barney likes to eat things too. He’s very dog like in that way.
I will definitely rebed the cowls and repair the holes.
I don’t have the blower vent cowls on my coaming. I will try to find them tomorrow.
Could they be placed elsewhere? Do I not have a blower? I’m pretty familiar with the boat and I’ve never seen or heard mention of it.
The stainless cowls were replacements for the rubber ones that came with the boat
They were a similar shape.
Rebecca
“Tessa” N30C #11
Watch Hill, RI
Dog’s fine – just a matter of using the time scheduled for the boat to do a cleanup job and take him on the walk in the rain that he was negotiating for.
If you have blower vents, they should connect inside the boat to 3" corrugated vent blower hose very similar to what’s probably on your dryer at home. The hoses would also be connected to electric bilge blowers that suck air into one and exhaust it out the other. These are intended to be run before starting the engine to clear any propane fumes that might have accumulated down below. Some people also run them while operating the engine to give it more air, and to clear out any diesel engine odors that might get into the cabin.
Since a proper propane system has propane sensors, and the boats generally are pretty well ventilated, I personally think that you don’t need to worry much about them.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
Considering your hull # it’s no surprise yours is different than my #396!
Rebecca: One simple, temporary fix is to tie plastic bags over the cowls until you settle on what your plan is.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Reverse the cowl vents so they face forward , they will work just fine and little or no rain will enter
I second that. The vents should face forward all the time.
When at anchor its fine facing aft but tied to the slip or on the hard rain can easily get in.
Do you have a dinghy on the stern? Maybe that’s why these don’t leak in the summer.
Many Nonsuches (older?) had these cowl vents right aft like yours. Others have the two vents on the coaming. One of the vents usually has a hose hooked up to the bilge blower.
Tom
26C 28 North Star
Penetang
Still … 10 gallons of water. As Rebecca states, the boat is tipped back a bit, making it almost impossible for rain to enter the vents. Possibly, they leak a little due to poor mounting but it’s all about the amount.
Tessa better not leak once she is covered up !! Somehow, somewhere … the cat is involved with this. I know it.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Ya’ can’t trust those felines, Ernie. I certainly don’t trust mine!!
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA