Hi All, After this past weekend I decided to sell my Npnsuch 30 U, I struggled with the sail cover far the last time. Then I thought of the Doyle Stack Pack or the Mack Pack. I looked in the archives and the Stack Pack seems to be the one most used. The only thing I don’t like about it is sailing with the cover on and how that looks, but I guess I can get over it. Where can I get one and should I buy it now and do i install it with the wishbone on the boat or off? I have a Doyle Botts full batten main with a Strong Track. Any advice would be appreciated.
John Ferrero
NS 30 U #297 Puffin
Northport, NY
You want to see Doyle sails on city island and speak to Paul or mark Ploch.
They will do a excellent job 4 u
Mark fagelman
I totally agree with Mark. Doyle on City Island has the knowledge and were really helpful to me . This is what my SP looks like.
ron<<
S/V Serenity II
NS U 30 479
Gulfport, FL
John,
I purchased a Stack Pack from Doyle, City Island, at the 2012 US Sailboat Show in Annapolis last Fall. Paul gave me a nice boat show discount ($2K + UPS shipping cost). It was time to replace my old sail cover or find a better solution. I've had no regrets about switching to the new Stack Pack.
I removed the sail and boxed it for shipping using an old wardrobe carton that was stashed away in our attic - just the right size. Doyle returned the sail with Stack Pack attached about six weeks later. I loaded it on board while my 30U was still on the hard using the dinghy davits but waited till spring launching to do the installation with the boat in the water.
The installation was really easier than I thought it would be. Paul was available to answer the one question that came up during the installation process. In regard to your question, the wishbone need not, i.e., should not, be removed for installation. The one thing that seems to require a bit of tweaking/adjusting to make a good installation is getting the length of the hanger lines right.
One caveat about Doyle's installation instructions: they provided a pair of 'dog bones' to facilitate easily attaching or detaching the clew reefing lines to/from the clew reefing line cringles. The purpose is to allow the Stack Pack to be completely zipped up when the sail is stowed without interference from the clew reefing lines. I found that attaching and detaching the clew lines each time the sail is raised or lowered to be the one inconvenience in an otherwise very well designed system. So, I got rid of the 'dog bones' and fed the reefing lines through the clew reefing cringles in their normal configuration. Since the Stack Pack zipper has two zipper slides, one fore and one aft, it's a simple thing to zip it up allowing a small space for the reefing lines to pass through - and, much more convenient.
Jim Hauser
NS 30 U #461, Ruach
West River, MD
I didn’t realize that stack-packs were attached to the foot of the sail itself. I have been conceiving of some sort of system that was integral with the sail hangar-lines coming down from thwe wishbone. Imagine those lines being webbing at the bottom 1/3, and that webbing sewn to the sides and bottom of a sailcover with a zipper at the top and perhaps some mesh at the bottom for ventilation/drainage.
I wonder how it would work. At the moment I do tend to send everyone home and stay behind to get the sail cover on and clean-up…it takes a good 15 minutes to get the cover on…bit of a pain.
John
NS30U#400
Tauranga, NZ
www.kiwiboatowner.com
John,
Your depiction pretty well describes what I had made for our Nonsuch. The foot of the sail is loose and the sail cover stays with the wishbone when we are under sail. There is webbing that is sewn to and under the cover at each hanger line, terminating just as the cover breaks away from the hanger line to lay over the top of the sail and at that point there’s a “D” ring sewn to the webbing. I had the webbing covered with the same Sunbrella the cover is made of. Each hanger line has a SS mini spring clip tied to each, which snaps onto the “D” ring holding the sail cover up along the wishbone. When under sail the cover is along the bottom of the sail but NOT attached, thereby making it easier to install or remove the sail by itself. The cover goes on first and then the sail is added and the reverse when taking the boat apart. There are two zippers, one that begins at the mast and zips back to the point where the reef lines go through. A second zipper begins at the clew and zips forward to where the same reef lines go through… obviously the forward zipper is quite long while the aft zipper is much shorter. There’s a flap that covers the zippers the entire length of the cover held down with Velcro at numerous locations. There are mesh panels sewn in the bottom of the cover for drainage and air circulation. A stiffener was added at the front of the sail cover area so it stands up around the mast while sailing and there is a front zipper for removal of the cover at the end of the season, it stays zipped while we’re sailing. There is no need for any lines to hold the cover up at the mast, it’s self supporting with the stiffener. After the sail is stowed away in the cover I tighten the choker slightly to make the cover straighter rather than look like a serpentine. After sailing I often have my sail almost covered while returning to our slip… I’m having my first beer before others get the sail ties on their sails. IMHO I think this is a very good way to go, our cost was around $700.
I can take some pictures and email them to you if you’d be interested in seeing what we have.
Regards,
Dick (& Shirley) Darrow
“Cativa”, NS30U #496
Sodus Bay, NY USA
Dick,
If it’s not too much trouble photos would be great. I’d like to go to a local canvas shop and say “build me one of these”. It sounds like an ideal solution.
John
NS30U#400
Tauranga, NZ
www.kiwiboatowner.com
I took Dick's clear and concise description and pictures added an idea or two of my own to my local sailmakers ideas here in Duluth, MN. They are currently sewing it up. I will be stopping to visit it on Friday. If any thing comes up or I remember what he and I added i will share with pictures as well. I specifically did not want the sail attached to the cover and I wanted no new holes in the mast. These requirements eliminated Stackpack and Mackpack. This is the same group that made my boat cover if it is as well done as that it will be a good thing.
Sounds great George, I’d love to see photos of what you’re having made up. I believe the healthy price tag alone for some of the “other” sail covers is discouraging enough. What we spent for our cover was worth every penny for the ease and convenience and makes sailing so much more enjoyable… I’m sure you’ll love your new cover too.
Regards,
Dick (& Shirley) Darrow
“Cativa”, NS30U #496
Sodus Bay, NY USA
John, we’ll be at the boat in a couple days and I’ll take photos and send them along.
Regards,
Dick (& Shirley) Darrow
“Cativa”, NS30U #496
Sodus Bay, NY USA
Will be in the market for a new sail cover and like this idea, I wonder if photo’s could be posted to this site for the NS community. Thanks, Bob Ulwick, Wharf Rat, Scituate, MA. NS30C
Sure Bob, I’ll be at our boat in a couple days and will take pictures to send to you.
Regards,
Dick (& Shirley) Darrow
“Cativa”, NS30U #496
Sodus Bay, NY USA
Another issue is the rigging of the Stack Pack.
There seems to be two schools of thought:
a) Add the Stack lines to the existing support lines
b) Remove the old lines supporting the sail, and rely on the Stack Pack lines for support
I noticed three Nonsuches in Camden Harbor using method B.
Has anyone done the research to determine which is proper, or is it a 'Suspenders & Belt" sort of thing ?
Jim Falcon
NS 30 U #356 Ballybay
Warren, RI
George ?
I'm thinking of a Stack Pac or similar so would be interested in receiving
further info/photos as well.
Larry Jack
30 U 261 'Felina'
Moncton, N.B. Canada
Went to visit the work in progress on Friday. It is at the pile of blue Sunbrella stage. This thread triggered me to bring in a suggestion of mesh panel for drainage. The blue is on order. Will post what the result is when it is done. Better be soon as the season here is soon done. Looks like below freezing here tonight. Will rely on warm lake water to save the new water heater.
Duluth Mn
30C
Zephyr
I like mine Doyle in Darthouth built it.They made 5 straps the go under and use them to keep the shape.
Hon George Archibald
Commodore RNSYS
Magical
Thanks for all the suggestions.
John Ferrero
NS 30 U #297 Puffin
Northport,NY
You want to get in touch with Doyle/Ploch sailmakers in city island.
Mark
Fagelman
Hi Folks:
We just bought Pipe Dream this summer and after 20+ years on a Tartan 30, Barbara’s interest in sailing and cruising has increased dramatically. We have upgraded some of the systems and I am anxious to simplify the sailcover process. I would love to see the photos of your various solutions to this problem.
Ned Chester
NS 30C #230 Pipe Dream
Portland, ME
Ned,
IMHO, despite all the well meaning advice on do it yourself stack pack systems and the attempts by other manufacturers, the gold standard reamains the Doyle Stack Pack and all the others are failed attempts to duplicate the success of the Doyle. Before purchasing my Stack Pack I did considerable research. As far as sail shape and ease of deployment the Doyle has fulfilled all our needs. One of the important factors in our decision was that we wanted to continue to take advantage of the loose footed benefits of the Nonsuch sail. A propery adjusted Doyle, with the attached membrane, fulfills this requirement while many of the other do it yourself and the Mack do not. Check out the attached pics to confirm our sail shape @6 knots in less than 9 knots of apparent wind.
Reef early,
ron<<
S/V Serenity II
NS U 30 479
Gulfport,FL
