Hi All,
On the way home from the 2026 Rendezvous, Soave was gifted 20 miles of downwind sailing in 15-20 knot wind. We had following waves 4-6’. Perfect except for the 1.5 hours of torrential rain that came at the end of the run.
We did have a potentially dangerous failure of our bimini frame, so I’m starting to look at options to improve its durability and safety.
The below photo shows the frame in it’s folded position, which it was in when it failed. The failure occurred where the frame attaches to Soave’s pushpit. Luckily the frame pipe ( held by a single set screw ) slid out of the bracket receiver on both sides at once and the entire frame rotated forward and down over our heads. The cause is Soave’s mainsheet when eased to the full downwind position contacts the frame just above the point where I’ve used a sail-tie to temporarily prevent another failure. In 20 knot wind the tension on the mainsheet has to be close to 1K lbs especially when surfing off waves. The frame only deflects the mainsheet a few inches so the pressure exerted to the frame is a fraction of the full load.
I’ve seen two approaches to managing interaction between bimini frame and mainsheet.
Option 1 - Allow mainsheet to come in contact with the aft bimini frame support, but reinforce the frame so it can handle the load. These frames tend to offer some protection to the helmsman while jibing but care must be taken to be certain the mainsheet can’t hook any part of the frame.
Option 2 - Support the bimini from forward of it’s center bar and eliminate the need for aft support. Frames that I’ve seen using this approach feel less solid, probably because the forward brace can’t go too far forward without impeding access to the cockpit.
I’m in no rush, but eventually I’d like to resolve what I consider to be a design flaw for Soave’s bimini. Please point out the options I’ve missed and also post pictures if you know of a boat that has addressed this issue in a simple but effective way.
Speaking of downwind sailing, at the Rendezvous Win Sanford gave a great presentation on preparing his Nonsuch 33 ( Kitty Hawk ) for the Bermuda race ( he won his division in '91 ). He explained the Hudson River Jib in a way that gave me enough confidence to give it a try. It worked ! I’m a fan of both the Hudson River Jib and Win for the his creativity when preparing Kitty Hawk for offshore sailing. No, I’m not planning to take Soave offshore, but I’d like to coastal cruise with confidence that Soave could hold her own in a blow.
I highly recommend participating in any in-person Nonsuch events you can get to… Discourse is good for exchanging ideas, but you can’t beat face-2-face interaction.
Next event on LIS is Labor Day weekend, Port Jervis, NY.
Rob,
CHICKEN jibe every time. You were not in a race that could justify a Hudson River Jibe. I scared the bejesus out of my kids and I wasn’t even trying to jibe.
Just sayin. Or use that power winch to haul the sheet in.
Brian
There’s a company which makes struts that fold but lock into straightline position for purposes of reinforcing folding dodger and bimini frames.
You might want to take a look at whether adding some of these, positioned to counter the upwards and forward forces of the mainsheet. The same outfit also sells sleeves that go over the articulation point to reinforce it and keep it from folding when not wanted.
I can’t really tell from the picture, but I’m guessing that the outermost frame piece attached to the strut that pulled out was the actual culprit. Another low-cost revision might be to put a brace running between that piece and the horizontal part of the stanchion. That’d require a few fork and post hinges, a strut with eyes on each end, and a detachable locking pin. That kind of set-up would provide some directional counterforce against the pull-out you encountered.
There are some 50 previous threads on Hudson River Gybe vs. the pejoratively named Chicken Jibe, better described as the Catboat Jibe (or, as the original Nonsuch sailmaker, Ed Botterell, suggested, the, “SAG: Stay Alive Gybe”). It’s been a religious debate as long as there have been Nonsuches. I’d like to split the difference by citing Botterell’s advice that certain maneuvers are best performed only by experienced sailors who have justified confidence in their skills.
That said, maybe jibing is a topic we should split into a different thread and keep this one to biminis.
Can’t beat face-to-face interactions, I agree. (Although… working in DC before I retired involved a lot of face to two-faced interactions. Those aren’t as fun.)
Our bimini has a strap on the aft centre leading to the combing and one to the centre of the dodge aft cross piece
The stainless tubes attached to the side of the combing and have a secondary loop to form the bimini
I agree if we want a lengthy conversation about gybing, we should split (or extend one of the existing conversations). I second your suggestion that sailors practice these maneuvers in light wind and progressively work towards heavier wind.
Peter DePascale has an “option 1” setup that has an additional strut slightly inboard and aft on the coaming that provides side-to-side stability to resist the force of the mainsheet rubbing on the frame. I like Peter’s approach of adding the extra strut, but I’m going to take some time to evaluate other ideas. Partly because Soave’s bimini canvas is in good condition and I can make my bimini “safe enough” if I replace the sail tie with some lashing.
Kind of killing two birds with one stone here. I agree that a separate topic for HRJs is a good plan but this was the best example I could find of how my bimini frame handles the load of the sheet on a run.
The lowest piece (down to the deck) of my frame is 1" tubing. Inside it most of the way down is a piece of the 7/8" tubing that comprises rest of my bimini frame. There is also a short piece of 1" between the two clamps above the bottom piece. The greatest force (at least the only place I ever had any movement) was the top clamp slipping down. The 1" tubing absolutely prevents that now.
If you are planning to rebuild the bimini frame to correct this problem, then you might consider reversing the stack of the bows. It seems like the sheet caught on that protruding joint and pulled it out, right? Imagine it flipped over so there is no protrusion. The sheet would come up against the frame, but wouldn’t have anything to grab onto. Of course you can’t really just flip it, you’d have to rejigger the whole frame and would probably have to shorten some and replace one bow. Lay it out on paper first because I’m just imagining this is my head.
If you, or the PO, have sailed with the boat for a long time and this is the first time it has happened, then you could rely on the sail strap like you’ve got it until it’s time to replace the canvas and then redo the frame.
You could put on a separate “roll bar” like I’ve got to keep the sheet out of the cockpit and corral it when the boom is way out. That wouldn’t prevent your problem with the bimini attached to the rail as you’ve got it, but…
I don’t have a bimini, but I’ve considered adding one. If I did, I’d attach it to the forward brace of the roll bar and it would never contact the sheet. It’s 1.25" stainless, so it also gives you something solid to grab onto when standing at the aft of the cockpit while messing with the clew end of the boom, clipping or unclipping the restraining line, changing helmspersons (is that a word?), gawking at whales, etc. It is the second most used grab rail on my boat. (The one on the aft edge of the dodger is the most used by a wide margin.)
Paul,
Thanks for this… the video makes it clear. This definitely provides and attractive option, plus it provides evidence that if the frame is properly constructed it can withstand the mainsheet pressure.
I like your solution for limiting sheet from flipping independently ( mine will sometimes flip around making a twist ).
Looks like an partially open zip tie, but can’t make out what keeps it floating in the correct position about 10’ from the wishbone.
Brian,
When Soave’s bimini canvas needs to be replaced, I’ll definitely consider an redesign of the frame.
Your point about Soave’s sheet potentially catching on the protruding joint is correct. For now I’ll definitely add something to deflect the sheet from catching.
Unfortunately , the canvas is designed to go both forward and zip to Soave’s dodger ( provides cover for crew but not the helmsman ) and aft to a position that shelters the helmsman ( and extends beyond the mainsheet) . With the back flap of the bimini extended, sailing is not an option and the wishbone needs to secured far to one side and the mainsheet slacked and retained so it doesn’t chaff on the bimini. The back flap is a poorly designed attempt to maximize coverage for the entire cockpit.
We frequently use the forward flap and rarely use the aft flap. But it’s a nice thought to have a way to provide so much covering while at anchor or in our slip.
That’s a soft shackle Rob. It’s purpose is to prevent the big carabiner at the end of my sheet (snapped to the becket of the deck block) from contacting the wishbone end block when I release it in light air to sail with a single part sheet.
The main reason the sheet is being so obedient is in the technique of the gybe. I’ve done a lot of experimenting.
My 2 cents not sure if relevant to your boat: Our original aluminum bimini frame got wrecked by the boom in some horrible chop and running on Lake Erie. To save our necks we purchased a high-quality Bimini/dodger from Sportech (on Lake ONTARIO!). I have for a few years been using improvised PVC tubes as spindles rollers on the back stays when running. They were supposed to be a stand-in for some more elegant engineering, but maybe next year.
We have been working on our Gybe techniques during racing, but tend to do the chicken tack if 10+ and also maybe with regards to wave height. Having a swim platform pretty high on the NS 26’ we have to be careful of tangles and the mainsheet always seems to find some other edge to grab onto. -JP
Thanks Jon. This is the first time I’ve seen the PVC roller idea.
Very interesting to see the variety of different bimini frames in use on Nonsuch boats.
In my research, I’ve learned that Hinterhoeller did not offer a bimini as an option or a line-item upgrade. All our bimini’s are aftermarket additions. Which explains the variety.
I used PVC “rollers” on mine for a while but discovered that they didn’t actually roll but the sheet wore grooves in them. I decided that the smooth stainless steel was better for the line and removed them.
Rendezvous
(Lloyd Herman; Rendezvous, 30U/424; Port Washington, NY)
14
Rob - Port Jervis for Labor Day weekend? Or is it Port Jefferson?
ooops… I have a Daughter we’re helping move in Port Jervis this week so I guess it was on my mind.
The Labor Day Rendezvous had been planned for Port Jefferson. With only two boats coming we’re thinking of possibly moving the location. Gary will post any changes.
Sorry for the confusion Lloyd. Port Jervis is kinda hard to get to with a Nonsuch.
Looking at the pictures of that PVC roller to aid the main sheet I’m thinking that the ID must have minimal surface contact to be effective so if you put an inch and a half PVC pipe for the roller, you would need a smaller size PVC contacting the stainless probably each an inch wide with three-quarter ID if that’s what the tubing is, glued inside the inch and half roller to prevent too much friction and thus limiting its ability to spin.
Just a thought,
Brian
