Downwind the carbon fiber mast moves about 1/4 inch fore and aft while pumping along. Disturbingly loud and seems inappropriate. I added a stainless collar that fits over the “key tab” at the forward end, to prevent sideways movement as the carbon fiber was bruised at the tab. Turnbuckle hook 
at base is all that seems to secure it.
Anyone seen this?
Best
Bill Wildman
324 Coddiwomple
East Jordan, Michigan
The base collar at the butt of the mast should have 4 bolts that are threaded in the side of the collar and adjust to lock the but in place fore and aft and side to side. At the deck, the collar should be fitted with a poured Spartite collar. Carbon fiber masts should no experience the point loading produced by the standard Nonsuch wedging system.
Just a question out of curiosity - Ward is absolutely correct but, regarding the 4 usual horizontal bolts that normally help to lock ALUMINUM masts into the mast step, is it actually the same with carbon fibre ?? I cannot see driving bolts into the carbon fibre. Do carbon fibre masts terminate in aluminum or metal shoes or bases such that the 4 bolts can be tightened into something besides carbon fibre ??
Ernie A. in Toronto
I concur with Ernie about those locking bolts and carbon fiber masts. We have members with non-aluminum masts. Could they please reply??
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
The designer of my carbon fiber mast, Ted Van Dusen, when asked about the bolts in the base shoe, indicated that one could machine an arced polished end on the fixing bolts. I have not done that yet. There is wear on the mast where the bolts ride.
I am thinking about inserting a stainless piece between the mast and the bolts.
I have a carbon fiber mast with no movement. There are lots of wedges at the collar. My problem is she points better on port tack than starboard. Does anyone else have a faster tack? The mast looks centered in the collar.
Debbie
Essence nonsuch 324 #103
Newport, ri
Do you have those securing bolts in question at the shoe, Debbie??
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
My 26C has similar characteristics since I bought her some 20 years ago
If you find the reason let me know
Meanwhile. Safe Sailing:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
Cedric
Single Malt. #207 26c
Chester Nova Scotia
My current 26U with a carbon mast does better on starboard than port tack. As did my previous 26C with aluminum.
I always attributed both to small differences in weight distribution.
The 26C had usually full water and diesel tanks plus the galley stove on one side vs. a usually full water tank, a usually empty holding tank, and nothing else on the other.
The 26U had a bigger water tank on the same side vs. the galley, a smaller (non-standard) diesel tank, and usually empty holding tank on the other. Now that I’ve gone electric, it doesn’t even have the diesel tank.
Getting back to the original question, any movement at the deck is inappropriate. My carbon fiber mast has a Spar-Tite all around wedge, and I have the impression that this is generally considered “the right thing to do”.
I’ve honestly never looked at how the mast base is secured to the step; nothing’s ever happened that triggered concerns. I’ll take a look and report back.
– Bob
Me Gusta, N26U #233 (currently)
Solar Wind, N26C #143 (previously)
Now this is getting even more interesting. Debbie Sabo’s mast is held in place at the collar by a bunch of wedges, like an aluminum mast. I thought that one should never “point load” these masts using wedges (and, just maybe, 4 honkin’ big bolts at the base, screwed up tight against the carbon fibre). I thought that one must use Spar-Tite at the collar. After I wrote my initial post above, I felt a bit silly because, surely to Pete, they would have put some sort of metal shoe or base on a carbon fibre mast (but … maybe they don’t !!). Which, as usual, begs another question - on our aluminum masts, the turnbuckle hold-down hooks into an ovular (if I remember correctly) slot/hole on the mast a few feet up from the mast step.
How does this turnbuckle hold-down attach to a carbon fibre mast - does it just hook into raw carbon fibre or is it a reinforced hole or slot or … ?
I’d love to know. Right now, for the saddest reasons, carbon fibre is being talked about an awful lot. The jury (of scientists who know this material) is out on carbon fibre - as fabulous as this material is in many applications, it has a tendency to “explode” (or implode), sometimes for unknown reasons. The result is a zillion shards. Carbon fibre is known to suffer from fatigue (but, to be fair, other materials do, also. So do people …
Anyhow, I’d love to hear more comments on these masts and how they are being held in place on Nonsuches, etc.
Ernie A. in Toronto
The hold own terminates in a T-ball fitting which fits into an oblong hole just like an aluminum mast.
Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT
I’d love to know. Right now, for the saddest reasons, carbon fibre is being talked about an awful lot. The jury (of scientists who know this material) is out on carbon fibre - as fabulous as this material is in many applications, it has a tendency to “explode” (or implode), sometimes for unknown reasons. The result is a zillion shards. Carbon fibre is known to suffer from fatigue (but, to be fair, other materials do, also. So do people …
Ernie,
Before we determine the comparative strength of carbon fiber to spin aluminum we should come up with a solution for the guy with the rattling mast, no?
Brian
Boat-less in NewEngland
The following photos show the mast partners, step and foot - as you can see the hex shoe in the step has 4 set screws and the mast has a hex shaped, reinforced foot that fits in it. There is also the t-bolt retaining strap/turnbuckle hold-down that goes into a reinforced slot on the side of the mast. The mast is secured at the partners (deck collar) is sealed with spar-tite that provides a perfect seal around the mast.
I get no movement in any direction (fore/aft/side-to-side/up/down) the only thing (as with all unstayed rigs) is mast bending and twist as wind and center of effort move about.
Hope this helps figure out what’s going on with the OPs rig.
Jim.
C.A.T. 1982 Nonsuch 30C #146 lying Oriental, NC.
Hmmmm … well, I guess “I’ve been told, eh !!!”
Disregarding all of that, one of the things that I wanted to know was if the base of the mast was, somehow, made of metal, presumably aluminum. So, thanks James D. for the photos just above but, looking at the hex base, am I looking at a metal or a carbon fibre base ??
I am simply curious.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Brian. Thanks for the photos. I wish we had a base system like yours. I did put the Spartite in a couple of years ago. The shims were obviously substandard. Our mast has no formal finish at the base other than a two inch notch or slot that fits over a corresponding key on the forward edge . This notch was slightly bruised when I first got the boat boat and got worse after the fist season. I had it reinforced with a matching stainless collar attachment. It barely fits through the deck opening now. There is a threaded rod on a pin that is buried in the mast footing epoxy forward of the mast and it is attached to a hook with a turnbuckle that fits in a hole about 14 inches above the key way slot. The hook holds the mast down to the footing and key way seems intended to stop sideways movement. The round mast seats in a round depression in the epoxy. It is not snug. Movement seems inherent with this system. Curious that we don’t have something like you have show. I think this is the last 324 ever built and would think they would have figured out a better system by then. Perhaps carbon fiber was still a new mast type in the mid 90s? This fall I need to pull the mast. It is stuck from the spar - tite
A whole different issue. I applied plenty of Vaseline and was not a problem the fist year
Sat outside on hard last year as a result. Once we get it pulled going to need more engineering I guess. Perhaps carbon fiber can tolerate the movement at the base . It’s a disturbing loud noise at the very least. Brian, is your boat a 324?
Bill Wildman
NS Coddiwomple 324 #104
East Jordan MI
Yes, the hold down “hook” is a T ball fitting on a turnbuckle
Bill Wildman
NS 324 Coddiwomple #104
East Jordan MI
Ernie,
It is not a reinforced hole. It seams a bit thicker with fiber in the lower end however.
Bill Wildman
NS 324 Coddiwomple #104
East Jordan MI
Thanks Bob,
Looks like there are different ways that carbon fiber mast stepp footings are set up.
Could be they were experimenting back then. My boat came with shims for the deck fitting. Got rid of those the first season and went with the Spar-tite.
Keep me posted please.
Bill Wildman
NS 324 Coddiwomple #104
East Jordan MI