Last year I did a 2 week circumnavigation of the DelMarVa peninsula, this summer we chartered a canal boat and had a wonderful time exploring the western Eire Canal so next summer I hope to take my N30u from Annapolis up hudson river- erie canal- oswago canal - thousand islands- kingston,Ontario - Rideau canal - Ottawa -Montreal- Richelieu river- Chambly canal- Lake Champlain - hudson and on to the Rendezvous . I’m thinking of getting the mast down south of Albany and leaving it there until we return from Lake Champlain to step it after we are done with the locks. Any recommendations for which marinas might be familiar with stepping and unstopping a Nonsuch mast? Any stops to not miss along the way? Ideas about how much time to allow for each leg of the journey? Thanks for all your great advice so far.
Captain Hillary,
That sounds like a wonderful adventure. Not that I would ever be able to do it at my age and condition but I am curious what structure you plan using to carry your mast, or do you plan on leaving it south of Albany on the Hudson and re-stepping on your return. I’m thinking you will carry it. Please fill this thread in as it materializes. It will be a good read.
Brian
After re reading I see you have already answered my question.
Brian
Captain Hillary,
That sounds like a great trip!
I’ve had my mast pulled, both on my N30 and my current N26, at Hop-O-Nose Marina in Catskill. They are a popular spot for sailboats heading through the canals. I can speak to their experience with our masts but dont know if they have dealt with the wishbone boom often (I built a couple of supports and dropped / stored the boom on the boat for the winter). Their rates are not bad and they are easy to deal with. There is another marina in Catskill that also does a fair amount of mast work as Catskill is a popular spot along the north south route.
When planning the trip, factor in that the Hudson is actually a tidal estuary and you can have 2+ knots working against you or 1+ knots working with you.
The Kingston Maritime Museum, Wooden Boat School and small waterfront area would be a nice overnight along the Rondout Creek. There are a small number of transient slips by the museum. That’s before a bridge w/56’ clearance. Lots of slips on the other side… my N26 and another one are at Hideaway Marina.
The next creek up is around Saugerties. It has a couple of small marinas, and a very small anchorage area (usually empty). It’s a modest walk uphill to a nice little town.
(Message me with any questions and keep me posted on you plans for passing through this area)
Jon
I’m curious, what are the tides like there? The listed air draft of a N30 is 52’-6". Throw on an antenna and some tide or swells and a 56’ bridge clearance could get exciting.
– Bob
Hello Capt Hilary,
Sounds like a very ambitious adventure. Just a couple of notes from my area. Unless you have a draft of less than 4 feet, the Rideau Canal is out of the question. Parks Canada restricts boats to that draft during most of the summer, because of the locks sills. On top of that, the access to the canal is not assured for 2026 as the Lasalle Causeway at Kingston suffered a collapse last year. The bridge was removed to allow boats to exit the canal, but a temp bridge was installed. It was removed by tug periodically to allow boats to exit. 2026 is up in the air at the moment. You can of course sail down the St. Lawrence to Montreal. If I were you, I would take my mast with me and remast at Oswego. Mexico Bay can get very uncomfortable to cross. Having a stabilizing sail helps. The 1000 Islands area is also wonderful area to sail. If you make it to Kingston, please come see me at Trident Yacht Club. It would be great to hear the stories of your adventure over a glass of wine.
John Pyl, Vlinder
Hi Hillary,
The past two Sept. - Oct. I made trips from Eastern Long Island Sound (ELIS) to Chesapeake Bay (Delmarva Peninsula) and from ELIS to the north end of Lake Champlain at Rouses Point in my powerboat. That covers much of your planned route.
My estimation of your planned route is 1200 nautical miles to Greenport and another 340 nautical miles back to Annapolis.
1200 miles at 30 miles per day is 40 days. I’d plan to leave Annapolis in a 30’ Nonsuch no later than June 15 to have some time to explore and to be assured of making it to Greenport on time.
You will be home after Sept. 1.
Three months on a boat is a lot different than two weeks. It will be quite an adventure.
Ward Woodruff
Tides here generally run 3’-4’, plus the bridge is only 56’ at the southern end… so when I had a 30 and didn’t get a slip before the bridge, I went “up the river”. (This crowd is possibly old enough to know that being ‘sent up the river’ meant going to Sing Sing prison.)
Reading about all of the cruising opportunities on the east coast and seeing all of the help that you all give to each-other, I am very envious. You may think sailing year-round in San Diego is nice - and it is! - but there’s not really anyplace to go. A trip to Catalina is a long slog directly upwind (almost always) and to go to Ensenada would entail that same slog returning home. And taking the dog there would be a serious hassle if we could do it at all. That’s about it.
Just something for you all to think about when putting up your boats for the winter. It’s not all bad.
I hope you have a great trip, Hilary!
And merry Christmas to everyone.
Well, thank you all very much for all your local knowledge so far. Especially John Pyl that may have nixed the Rideau entirely. I do draw 4’ but who wants to get on a canal and find out they can’t go any farther. And a very good reminder from Ward Woodruff that it is a 1200 mile journey. Maybe the Eastern Eire, a stop at the Trident Yacht Club and Montreal returning by lake Champlain would be enough this year. With the ICW and Bahamas for Winter of 26-27 if this goes well. Ive been off as crew to the Bahamas about 30 days in the past and around Florida for 6 weeks so I’m OK with taking the time or parking the boat if we want to get off for a while too.
Hillary,
I have made the trip a few times. We bought our N30U in Boston and brought her through the canal in May/June of ‘21.
I will attach a spread sheet of all the marinas and their services that I used in ‘21 and ‘22. I ‘22 I helped a friend bring a Catalina 30 down to the Chesapeak from Ithaca, NY.
Jon is correct about the tidal flow. It is an estuary until you pass the federal lock in Troy. After that, you are just facing river flow. Stay in the channels. It is easy to get in trouble. Lock 1 on the Hudson is often referred to as the “Federal lock.” I believe that lock is open all year. The Erie Canal ususally opens May 15-20. There will be a good size group of loopers in Waterford every morning waiting for the lockmasters to start their day. I think you will lock through 31 locks to get to Oswego.
We also stepped and unstepped the masts in Catskill. We used the Catskill Marina (no longer a full service marina). I have heard good and bad about Hop-O-Nose. They merged with another marina up the creek about 7 years ago. North of Catskill, I did not see any other options. There are many sailing and yacht clubs on the Hudson. I saw what looked like gin poles at a few of them. It might be worth checking with them to see if they offer those facilities to visitors. The the first tigt one is the Congress Street bridge is about 55 ft of clearance. The first bridge north of the federal lock has 20 feet of clearance.
We built a frame to load the mast and boom on the boat. I built it at home and brought it to Catskill before the trip. The plans are on te INA site. It worked great. When we reached Catskill by boat we just had to assemble it. We took the mast with us to Ithaca and in ‘22 we used the supports to get to Oswego. We now keep our boat on Lake Ontario. The Oswego Marina is NY State run. The prices are pretty good. They don’t always have room for overnight stays, but you can make reservations by phone. The only do 1-2 masts a day so call ahead a few days before you are going to arrive.
In 2022 they charged $3 a foot for the length of the mast. 53 feet x $3, comes out to $159. Most marinas are over $400. The mast makes the locks a little more interesting, but it is doable. It takes discipline by both deck hands. I bring this up because Lake Ontario is a great sailing ground, especially the northeast corner.
If you use Dockwa, it is pretty useless once you enter the canal. Very few places subscribe to their services on the canal and Lake Ontario.
I also attached a photo of our boat from the day we reached Ithaca. The mast is on the stand. the sail, in its stack pack is on the starboard deck. we put it on that side and then locked on the Port side each time.
If you get to the Sodus area, send me an email.
Chuck and Heather Garbarino, As You Wish, Sodus Point, NY
Marinas along the Way.pdf (54.9 KB)
Chuck,
Thanks for the description of your passage thru the Erie and the PDF of the marinas along the route. I have never gone thru the locks and am wondering what your experience was from entering to exiting while trying to keep your boat unscarred by the walls.
Brian
Brian,
The locks are simple. You need 2 people on board. Three works best on the N30 so the helmsman does not have to slide over to the rail with a boat hook. You need to be patient. You only move at 6 knots. The Erie Canal System is made of rivers. The Seneca, Oswego and the Mowhawk are three of them. There are currents that you deal with as well. There are a lot of areas that have no wake zones. When passing other boats, etiquette states to slow and not dump a wake on the other boat. That doesn’t always happen. Some locks are huge and take a while to cycle. You may wait 20 minutes or more. 50 miles in a day is a lot in a sailboat. The first 5 locks from the Hudson can take 2 hours and are in a span of 1.5 miles.
We have a good system.
Radio the lockmaster when the lock is in sight, or when you are about 5 minutes out. If it is a weekday, they are ususally slow and will have been told by your previous lockmaster that you are on the way. They often will have it set up for you to enter. They have red and green lights to tell you when you can enter the lock and when to stay away or tie up. It’s like an elevator. Let the exiting boats get out and clear before you approach.
The fenders are in the middle. The Nonsuch has a relatively long, straight hull compared to some boats that have fat middles and narrow ends. The Nonsuch is easier to work with but the long mast makes a mistake more pronounced. I place 2 fat fenders fore and aft of the widest part of the hull and 2 smaller ones between them. This gives us a “flat” surface against the wall.
The helm picks which lines we are going to grab. The lines are either steel cables attached at the top and bottom of the line. The ropes are just hanging. The advantage to the cables is that you do not have to touch them. you can use your boat hook to push and pull. The ropes you have to grab, and push with the boathook. When the water is drained at the lock the rope has little leverage when you pull.
The helmsman pulls up to the wall and stops. the deck hands grab the lines that are closest. The hardest thing is not to work hard. That sounds strange but the folks you see yelling at eachother are fighting eachother by pulling too hard. The deckhands tug the lines and push with boathooks. Just keep the boat parallel to the wall. You don’t need to be snugged up against it the entire time. As the lock cycles there will be eddies under and around the boat. They will try to push the boat toward and away from the wall. Talk to each other. Just keep it parallel.
When the pressure on both sides of the door is equal, the door will crack open. The lockmaster will open the door the rest of the way and you will get a green light to exit. There will most likely be boats outside waiting to get in.
Advice:
Be nice to other boaters. Even if you are faster or slower, the lockmaster will not cycle the lock when they know there are other boats approaching. They will wait for the slower boats. It’s not a race. Be patient.
The lines are slimy. We buy Harbor Freight work gloves and toss them in the trash at the end of the trip because you will never get the smell out. Use the cables if possible. You don’t have to grab them and you have better leverage.
Watch for debris in the water on the upstream gate of the lock. Exiting, going up and entering, heading down. The river current pushes logs and garbage against the door. Go through it slow so your bow pushes it away and it does not get pushed down into your prop. Some locks get floating grass against the doors. Our old Pearson would suck it up and we had to kill the engine after getting up to speed so I could run a snake down the through hull to clear it out.
Watch for logs in the rivers. In the spring and after heavy rains, large debris is common.
Don’t expect shore power every night. Sometimes you end up at a town dock, or tied up to the concrete wall outside a lock. There are often no facilities.
The canal system is winding rivers. Don’t expect to use your auto pilot.
Pay attention to the buoy colors. Red, right, return works until you make a turn and you are heading down the Oswego river and are heading OUT to Lake Ontario.
There are a few lift bridges that need to be raised for you along the route. Spencerport and Fairport come to mind, but there may be more. Treat them like a lock. the operators use the same frequency as the lockmaster (ch 13). I have seen boats hit the bridge in Fairport. One was a delivery captain.
Most importantly, enjoy the trip. The scenery is awsome. There are pairs of bald eagles throughout the canal. There are tons of great restaurants. Most of the the towns exist because of the lock. Amazing history.
I have yet to travel west of Pittsford on the Erie or north of Albany on the Hudson, even though I have locked through over 200 times. I am envious of Hilary’s trip. I mapped it out, 1420 nautical miles before any side trips or heading down the Long Island Sound for the Rendezvous.
Chuck Garbarino
Chuck
Wow what an eloquent and descriptive narrative. Thanks for taking the time and effort to post. This thread is WIKI worthy.
Brian
Chuck and Heather, what a valuable an thorough description. We’ve only done the western portion of the Eire canal in a bareboat packetboat. My only difference with your description would be that unlike sailing when fenders are stowed the instant we leave the marina, on the canal it seems to be quite acceptable to just leave them hanging - at least 3 to both sides - all the time!
Brian - you do have my sympathy for pacific coast sailing. I’m a transplant to the east coast from originally sailing in San Francisco Bay. The wind and weather are great in SF but the destinations are few. The Chesapeake alone has an embarrassment of marinas, charming ports, and beautiful anchorages. The Gulf Stream is only a challenge at Hatteras as opposed to the Pacific current that challenges you from Seattle to Baha California. Many here just adjust their location to follow the good weather to the Bahamas in the winter to Maine in the summer. Or something of us are attempting to avoid the triple digits of a Chesapeake summer by heading to Canada.