I am getting a carbon fiber mast this spring, from Composite Engineering, to replace my broken aluminum mast. I understand the the carbon fiber mast requires a Spartite collar to prevent point loads. everything seems straightforward except, how do I support the mast while installing the dam, pouring and curing the Spartite?
Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT
Do you mind I I ask how much a carbon mast replacement is . I have wondered what a carbon wishbone boom would cost? The original on my boat is 150lb So a carbon one would be half? What happened to make your mast fail, -lease share. Jim moores n33/41 Arawak. NC
Hi Ward,
I unstepped my mast close to a year ago. Carbon fiber, build 2008 by CE. It was indeed “wedged” with the Spartite system. What I found was this:
So my guess is that you have to play with the 4 wedges to get the mast in the exact right position. That would probably be - centered, same distance to the collar all around. Than stuff all voids. After that you should tape the collar on the outside to make sure pouring is easy and without spills.
I should also tell you that at fist attempt of unstepping, we were unable to remove the mast, even by force. We even lifted the bow of the boat at least 10 inches, 25cm, out of the water pulling the mast with a crane. The Spartite system would not let go. We tried basically everything: heatgun (carefully - just the metal collar), dish washing soap, oil, raw force. Eventually we unbolted the collar from the boat and cut the gue (5200?) to release the mast with the collar still attached to the mast.
Once on the hard we used 4 really heavy duty ratchet straps to get the collar loose from the Spartite seal and the mast. Spartite seal did suffer some damage and I’m thinking of replacing, not sure yet.
Another thing I noticed about the Spartite system was, when the boat was rolling at anchor and forces moved the mast from left to right, that the Spartite gue did allow some play. Only a millimeter but clearly visible when the mast was swung from one side to the other. I question the Spartite system is ideal for Nonsuch applications. I’ve studied the Spartite website and to my understanding it was not designed to hold free standing mast in position rather than make a tight seal on conventional keel stepped mast at deck level. I wonder…
If you gather some extra information, please share!
Kind regards,
mark, N36#25, nld
Ward,
If it would be any help, I am visiting my NS 354 (33’) this coming week in San Rafael and could take pictures of the base and collar to show exactly how my carbon fiber mast was installed when built by Hinterholler in 1994/5.
I arrive 2/24 and could get some good shots off either Wednesday or Thursday, depending upon when I arrive…
Please let me know…
MIchael Jabara
Hobbes II - 1995 NS 354 #72
San Rafael, California
Mark,
Thanks fo the reply.
The inside of the collar is to be coated with Vaseline as a release agent. Hopefully that allows the mast to be pulled easily later.
My boat came to me with a Spartite system. I got rid of it because I thought wedges would be easier. Now back to Spartite as recommended for carbon fiber to prevent point loads.
I figured wedges needed to be placed for the Spartite installation.. I see now how that was done in the case of your boat.
Hi Jim,
My mast failed at the joint. It was blowing over 20 and choppy. We had a reef in. The sail looked like crap so I made a bunch of adjustments and I think I over tightened the topping lift by cranking on the choker.. I realized that was a problem and eased the topping lift. Maybe 15 minutes later, the top of the mast fell backwards and just enough to leeward to miss the boat.
My insurance company told me they would send a check for over $50,000 45 minutes after they received the estimate. I’ll have some minor expenses in excess of insurance.
Fortunately, the mast failed on the way to the boatyard for winter haul out rather than while in the lead on the last leg of a race. I received word Friday that the mast is likely to be in production soon. Spring is coming.
Photo attached.
Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT
I own your sister ship, NS354 #71. I hope to visit her this coming week, so I will try to get some pics too.
Barry
1995 NS354, #71
Swan’s Wing
Urbanna, VA
Hi Barry,
Great to connect!
I don’t know if you have ever seen this web page but it has every NS 354 except mine. I’ve tried to reach the web page owner to add it, but to no avail…
Here’s your boat with it’s prior owner… https://pbase.com/nonsuch/vendetta__354__71__1995
I’m in the INA Directory, but my number is below if you ever want to swap stories, hints or tales of woe 
Michael Jabara
Hobbes II - 1995 NS 354 #72
San Rafael, California
(702) 562-7600
When did this happen, Ward?? I can’t believe you were overpowered with just over 20 kts of wind on a NS33. I’m not sure how tightening the choker or tightening the topping lift would have caused the problem. Why did the mast break anyway??
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Hi Joe,
I attached a photo of the break yesterday.
I’m not a scientist so I am not postulating further.
All I know is I heard a small noise aloft and watched the top of the sail fall backward and leeward.
The best part of the incident was that it was the last day of the season. We were a mile offshore and 4 miles east of the entrance to the Connecticut river.
My friend and fellow yacht club member heard our advisory call to the Coast Guard and came out in his Towboat US boat to accompany us to the river.
We got the sail off the mast and the top of the mast secured at the first gas dock in the river. Our 15 mile motor up the river to the boat yard was uneventful though we were 3 hours later than expected.
I attached a photo of Margery after arrival at the boat yard.
Ward Woodruff
413-847-0620 Cell
Ward,
I am impressed by your insurance carrier’s quick response and check writing. My current insurer is through boat US and reading through the policy not clear if it would cover something like this. Would you mind sharing your insurance carrier? I am currently looking into coverage by Pure Insurance. Thank you
Steve O
N26C #172 ANU
Marblehead MA
Hi Steve,
Safeco.
Been dismasted as the result of a collision - before I got my NS30. I’ve seen other broken Nonsuch masts and I’ve certainly been in the Connecticut river. Am I to assume the bottom section is still undamaged?? If so, somewhere down the road there maybe a Nonsuch 30 owner looking for a good used bottom. It would be great if it could be stored out of the way someplace.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Steve: Don’t know if Allstate writes policies in Mass, but give them a try. When my Cape Dory was totaled due to a collision, Allstate was prepared to write me a check within 48 hrs. I refused since the power boat that hit me was at fault and they were paying. Also, I never needed a survey with them and I can go any where on the East Coast and the islands without a rider. I pay around $500 per year.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Hi Joe,
The lower section is undamaged but some stuff is removed such as the aluminum extrusion that was glued and banded to the mast for the lowest portion of the sail track. The turning block collar and tack collar are going to the new mast. The section is for a 33. I imagine a 30 has different dimensions.
We could probably figure out how/where to store it.
Hi Ward -
Having your mast bust puts you into a very elite group, I gather. It was interesting to hear Mark (Sprio)'s comments, regarding the 4 sneaky mast wedges from underneath and the unnerving experience of lifting the entire boat by the mast !!
You are not a scientist - I am certainly no engineer. When you discuss point loading, I guess that you mean that pressure on the mast, at the mast collar, should be uniform and not come from the 12 (I think) mast wedges, snugged against the mast. That is why they want Spartite used. Quite possibly, unless Spartite is used, maybe any warranty claim against problems that may arise could be voided.
I realize that petroleum jelly is the only “separator” substance that Spartite approves of. I do know that petroleum jelly does break down in time and/or just, sort of, disappears. It is not some kind of high grade synthetic grease (think tractor trailer 5th wheels) - it’s just plain old Vaseline. Do you store the boat on the hard ?? Obviously, with the mast up, I guess.
I was thinking of some kind of way of using nothing but wedges to fully go around the mast in the collar. I found a drawing of an NS30 mast collar and discovered that disassembled wooden clothespins just might work as small mast wedges to “fill in the gaps”, as “different” as this idea may sound. I’m attaching an illustration.
I’m looking at this in regard to you not being able to pull this mast out if you use Spartite, frankly, but it might simply be a goofy idea.
One other question - Is your boom aluminum and, if so, would there be a boom weight issue either with the boom hitting the carbon mast or just with the weight of it swinging around ?
Ernie A. in Toronto
Joe,
Thank you. I probably should have started a new thread entitled insurance. I pay around 375 right now for ACV with Boat US the new quote from Pure is 679 with agreed upon hull value of 30K and higher towing limits 5k vs 3k
Hi Ernie,
I searched for old threads using Spartite as the keyword before asking of the group.. In one thread that came up, Mark Fagelman’s N33 Puff, now with another owner, apparently has a carbon spar. Mark indicated that rather than spartite, he fit wedges closely spaced around the entire perimeter at the deck collar. I guess you and Mark think alike. I’ll inquire of the mast fabricator if that might be allowable.
The petroleum jelly only needs to act as a release agent while the Spartite is curing. Once cured, I do not believe the petroleum jelly is required. Perhaps on N36 now in the Netherlands, no release agent was used when the Spartite was poured.
My mast is usually pulled and stored horizontally in the winter.
Hi Ward, you could be right about the lack of a release agent when “they” applied the Spartite gue on N36#25 in 2008. On the other hand, you could be wrong also. Your guess is as good as mine. If I would to use the Spartite system again, I would also be certain to seal the collar to the deck with butyl tape.
If the same thing would happen again (Spartite not letting go), I’d sure have an easy job getting the collar of the deck!
mark, n36#25, nld
above: bow of the boat came up quite a bit, trying to pull the mast. Watch closely… it’s quite a bit!
mast came of with collar still attached thanks to Spartite system
Ward -
The very last thing that I would want to face would be a situation that Mark encountered, in Holland, where he had to unbolt the mast collar (that never, EVER wants to be unbolted - I know this, sadly … ) with the mast in situ, in the late fall, with the crane waiting … yadda yadda yadda.
All because the Spartite stuck to the mast collar. The Spartite philosophy is that the Spartite should stick to the mast (no vaseline used there) forming a nice, neat permanent plug when the mast is replaced. You, then, would re-install the mast boot and the whole thing is watertight and the mast is held in place by the old Spartite “ring”. And, to be fair, I’ll bet this works well (but … it’s still scary). The idea that I’d be pouring a permanent “ring around the collar” on my new 50K carbon fibre mast mast would already have me sweating, to be honest.
I must say that I am both pleased and surprised that Mark Fagelman used a bunch of wedges (which, unless I am very mistaken) should do just about the same job as the Spartite AND allow the mast to be popped right out. You’d know that your mast is sitting in exactly the correct place because the original 12 wedges would be holding it there. Then, it’s simply a job of carefully wedging the rest of it all. Even though Mark in Holland would notice a slight “crack” in the Spartite seal when the boat was really working, the pressure on the mast from the Spartite was consistent, just as it would be from wedges almost totally filling in the gap. I suppose that the only thing to be careful about is to make sure any extra “clothespin” wedges were uniformly nudged into place and that nothing was really rammed in so as not to put more pressure on one point of the mast.
Furthermore, the mast is round (which is great) and is uniformly (really) strong as opposed to a more ovular ot rectangular mast which MIGHT be weaker on the sides (unless this was compensated for in the construction of the mast i.e. thicker sides). I can see more of a “point loading” question arising from a non-round “conventional” mast. I know zilch about any type of real mast construction aside from what I just read, in the last few days, on the websites of several mast builders.
I can understand your mast builder (CE) being concerned that a boat owner would simply plunk in the new carbon mast, wedging it, possibly, in a non-fussy, point-loaded manner that doesn’t apply uniform pressue to the mast.
I would never suggest to not use a proven product (Spartite) that has been around for a while and seems to work very well. I will state (gulp !!) that I would fear using it because I would never sleep, worrying that I won’t be able to pull the mast because the product (Spartite) will not seperate from the mast collar because I used vaseline as a seperator and, maybe, missed a spot or … ??
What about asking Mark Fagelman what led him to use wedges, etc. ? And, yes, speak to the folks at CE about this.
Good luck.
Ernie A. in Toronto
