I had a wishbone stack pack for a few years before I changed the rig. As others have stated, it allowed me to sail longer, pack up quicker and save my energy for better things. It had a mesh underside to drain water and improve ventilation. I thoroughly recommend it for sailors who are maturing in hot humid climate.
My only reservations are:
On my 26, it further obscured the lines of sight to leward. A problem fir single handed sailing.
It increased the area exposed to cross winds which can be awkward when docking in a confined space.
Photos attached taken in 2019 of Mascouche with her new rig and a pack mounted on the boom and a 26 with a wishboom stack pack.
Not to worry Bob,
Those are the aero fenders you have. The ribbing acts just like the dimples on golf balls. Careful testing carried out by the well known sailing magazines Impractical Sailor and Not too Bad Ancient Tub have inconclusively proven that those particular fenders will only reduce speed by .0131 knots per fender.
Unfortunately any boat boat photo with fenders hanging from the lifelines are immediately rejects by sailing magazine editors. Solar Wind will not make the cover of Good Old Boat.
Mark Powers
La Reina 26C, (sailing under free since my brother snapped photos with the fenders hanging over the side, oh the shame)
Vancouver, B.C.
We are ALL guilty … even me. Check out the enclosed photo.
(I’d love a Stackpac, Mackpack, Backpac, etc. - I just got my boat back after it’s LONG repair job and won’t be stepping the mast - she’s a motor cruiser this summer. I might go for a ziptop cover next summer, though.)
To be serious, though (now that I have you on the line), I know that you guys really did some serious R & D on your sail covers as made by the other Butch. And, I know that you were mighty pleased with the results.
If I may ask, when you did your cover for your N22, just even roughly, how much did it cost ? And, how long ago was that ?
Tomorrow I can provide date detail but I believe it was seven or eight years ago. Ernie, I believe it was about $700 back then. But we bought 5 sail covers and I know he gave us a break because of this. Mine was the first and I had a couple of other things done. So pricing for my cover may be difficult to distinguish. Bob Jacob (in the directory) recently had one built for his 22 and would be willing to provide you detail, I’m sure. He’s a good guy. His 22 is now up for sale as he is moving to Florida.
Contact Bob and if you have difficulty reaching him, let me know and we’ll extend this conversation off line.
Hope all is well up your way. BTW, that picture was a great action shot. I don’t care what the rules are, I like it when the boat tips past 15 degrees. Regarding the fender on the deck, I never wanted my boat’s picture in a magazine anyways. I sail for fun, not intending to impress anyone. That’s what you were doing and it looked great.
Ernie, I bought mine from “Kent lsland” Butch (aka Allison Miller) after discussing with Butch, the engraver (aka Butch Garron). $800, but being far away from K Butch, I had to do the fit up on the rough cut and send back for the finish cut and sewing. K Butch usually does this himself when closer to his home. Shipping was about $30 to $40, for down and back twice, as I remember. This cover is well made, reinforced with internally sewed in 10 oz sail material at the hanging points and the mast, uses the best sun resistant teflon thread, hanging rings, grommet reinforced drain holes along the bottom, and excellent tough #10 zippers. I am very happy, after 4 full years of use.
We had the exact same arraignment as Carl. Living in Saint Louis, MO we could not expect Butch to fly out here and do the fitting. We did a couple of test fits, took lots of photos and sent everything back to Butch Miller. We had to do this twice to get the perfect fit, but it all went well. It is a very nice well made cover and we could not be happier. Someone on tis board referred to the covers as a"Marriage Saver Cover". At the end if the day the sail drops right into the cover we zip the front zipper 90% and then motor into the harbor. We can be closed up and into the shade in ten minutes or so.
This is a continuation of yesterday’s mailing regarding sail cover. These pictures are from 2015, (when I owned my NS22) and hopefully they will provide a rough idea of what the cover looks like. In an earlier mailings drainage was discussed. It was concluded that the sun does the damage and not the water. We were not overly concerned but did want to do something about drainage. Look at the normal angle of the sail cover when the boat is put to bed. It slopes down significantly creating its own drain path exiting at the base of the mast with nothing to stop the unwanted water. That’s a good thing. We discussed this in detail with Butch and decided we would add grommet drain holes along the bottom of the cover. With the natural slope and the grommet holes, that would more than take care of that little concern. For those that might keep a sloppy rig, wrinkle pockets in their nice new sail cover could be formed, which probably could hold some water in. That’s not a cover design problem, that would be a skipper problem. Mesh was mentioned earlier and we also discussed that in detail. I asked a lot of people, that I could find about mesh. If mesh is allowed to rub against a Bimini, dodger and or sail. It can saw the living dickens out of those items in a short period of time. Possibly there is new stuff out there that will not do that. But I am also sure that would be an extra, unnecessary cost.
The sail cover for my NS 30 is the same basic design. Originally I changed it to a one zipper operation but quickly had Butch take it back to the original design. Those reef lines were a PITA. In the second picture the lines are a little sloppy but I don’t mind showing my dirty laundry every now and then. But notice the line with the blue ball. This line was used as my zipper pull cord. Works great and also have one on my NS 30. Saves time.
Thanks for all of this good info, guys. My little challenge is that my mast, boom and sail won’t be up this summer. Therefore, I don’t have any real measurements, etc. to give (the other) Butch or another canvas type. I do have some photos but, honestly, I need to be able to give them real numbers in order to get a decent result. And, I don’t know how viable a plan it is to consider several cross-border shuipping trips for the sail cover.
I think that this will evolve into a plan next summer when, by hook or by crook, the boat will be rigged.
But, regardless, thanks to you all.
Ernie A. in Toronto
PS - Butch … my buddy, Peter Davidson, who sails a Grampian 30 out of my club (EYC), is a superb photographer. He has used MOUSTACHES and a couple of other club boats as "models’ and I’m lucky to have some real nice shots of the boat. Kinda like those glorious YouTube videos that you did years ago of Al Suydam’s N22 - the video that firmly convinced me to buy a Nonsuch (no joke - that is serious).
Thank you everyone for your pictures and opinions on the Stackpack type cover. Even though I really hate putting the conventional sailcover on, I really do not want to compromise sail efficiency. I have purchased a new sail and would like to do some racing next year. So for that reason, even though I would like the convenience of a Stackpack or zipper top type sailcover, I am thinking that I am going to go with a conventional cover…unless someone can talk me out of it.
Jerome Bertuglia
Purr Diem
NS30C 269
Stonington, CT
You will be much better off with a clean sail without the baggy impediment of any Stackpack! When have you ever seen one of these clunky and ugly things on any serious racing boat, large or small?
Just get five of six properly-sized bungee cords, then at the end of the day, head up, drop your sail, and quickly secure the loose folds with the bungees. This will control the sail in the lazy jacks and keep it from flapping or billowing while you motor in to your mooring or slip. Once you are safely anchored, moored, or docked, then you can add your zip-up sail cover if you plan to leave the boat for any length of time to better protect it from birds, storms, or the ravages of sunlight. (Personally, I like to have both the zipper and the breathing drain holes along the bottom of the cover rather than the top because the zippers seem to give up the ghost to sun exposure long before the Sunbrella cover material does.)
If you are just spending the night aboard and planning to sail again the next day, the bungees alone should be fully sufficient to let you rig again more quickly the next morning without having to fight the cover off.
We bought a Stackpack a few years ago and although it was convenient, I didn’t like it for the reasons Barry articulated. In addition to the effect on sail performance, I also don’t like the additional weight aloft, likely 10 ft above the roll axis. I am probably a bit goofy for thinking about keeping weight low, but their you have it. So, we had a new sail cover made for SaSeaCat a couple of years ago and the Stackpack is in storage for now.
I look at sail ties as the forerunner to Bungee cords. Sailties were nice in the days of cotton sails, but things have evolved. We have some very nice all polyurethane bungees that are gentle on sails, do not rust and do not break; fittingly these bungees are called “The Perfect Bungee”.
Here is a link: https://www.theperfectbungee.com/collections/easy-stretch-cords
Although with our Butch Miller zip top sail cover we seldom need them for the sail anymore, we use them for cockpit shade covers while working in the hold.
I do use modern bungee cords to keep my stern lines off of the teak. My next project, I guess, is to get rid of my canvas sails and move up to cotten!!
PS - Until I get my real laptop back some of my emails may not be up to par. It’s not easy running Win10 on a Commodore128!
