New sail cover—what details are important?

Newsgroups Archive Prior to 2025
1

Hi all,

I am commissioning a new sail cover for my 30U, and I would love to any intel, wisdom or details that folks here have uncovered to pass on to my canvas person.

The main questions I am going back and forth on is wether to include cradle lines openings. Should I include openings for them along the cover, so that the fabric can drape nicely below the sail?

I’d love to see what other details are important to include in the design (e.g. do i need special openings for the reefling lines?).

If you have pics to share of your sail covers plese send them over!

Thank you

Robin B
ZOE, 30U #307
SF Bay, CA

2

My suggestion, having had my sail cover remade 2 years ago with no input at all to the maker:

  1. Have reinforcing placed at each cradle line. Ideally, only at the bottom, where it matters. Otherwise you have a striped sail cover.
  2. have clasps to tie the sail cover in between the cradle lines. That way they don’t interfere with trying to tie down the sail.
  3. put another snapped, short strap at each cradle line to keep the cradle line from slipping away from the reinforcing. This prevents chafing the cover.
  4. Make sure the new cover goes all the way to the end of the sail. About 3” extra is OK. A line at the end helps to wrap up the sail and cover it well.
  5. Mine has a Zipper and clasps at the mast. Mast tie line at the top to tie it tight. Nice feature.

Can’t think of anything else at the moment.

Good luck!

Bob Gehrman
NS30U #396 “Quickbeam”
Baltimore, Maryland

3

Robin -

Your first thought is to decide if you want a zipper-top (Stack Pac, Mack Pac, whatever Pac, homemade Pac) type of cover. In 10 years of owning my little NS 22, I damn near broke my back and spent lots of extra time sweating and bear-hugging (and schlepping) my traditional open-at-the-bottom sail cover over my sail (18’ long) at the end of every sail.

UGH, seriously. A true drag, man. Especially on a nice hot day. Until I went “zipper top”.

A zipper-top zips open and … that’s all, folks !! It sits there, not in the way. Off you go, in minutes. No storing and schlepping (love that word - Italian, isn’t it ???). Finished sailing ?? Now comes the real fun - the sail drops … wham … right into the cover. Zip it up. THAT’S IT. Go have a beer or a prosecco. Otherwise, 25 minutes of sweating and (wait for it) schlepping (and, likely, some swearing). And, your sail cover is way longer than 18’ and way heavier.

Sincerely, seriously, if it takes a second mortgage on your home, it’s worth it. Long-time Nonsuchers and veteran sailors say that it is the singular best improvement that they have made to their vessels. I know that the Stack Pac (Doyle Sails) or the Mack Pac (Mack Sails) are very popular. Both of these esteemed companies have developed highly successful designs specifically for our boats, taking cradles lines, etc. into considerations. They don’t need to reinvent the same wheel that they invented, eons ago. To be fair, other good canvas shops have built many of these for Nonsuches.

All of that said, Paul Miller adapted a standard sail cover on his NS 30 by, essentially, coercing his good wife to sew zppers along the top of it. I believe it’s a big success. Butch Garren and several other Nonsuch sailors around Solomons, MD., got together and worked up a home-grown design with a good local canvas shop that, I believe, worked out really well. And, I took Paul’s idea and had a few zippers run along the top of my uncooperative cover and never regretted it.

A cover like this takes recreational sailing to a whole new level of pleasure, honestly, when you don’t have to dread “packing up”.

Think about it.

Ernie A. in Toronto

4

Thanks Ernie! I actually have a Doyle stack pack on that came with the boat. I had to remove it recently while I was doing my mast repairs, and I have to say it’s quite lovely not having this giant burgundy object floating around my deck while under sail.

I am sure I will go back to the stack pack eventually, but for now, while my back is strong, I am excited to go with a traditional sailcover.

5

OK - I gotcha !!

Ernie A. in Toronto (with a back that is not so strong)

6

Actually, Robin, sort of on this subject …

Yes, go with all of Bob Gehrman’s ideas. Clearly, he knows. But, if your cradle lines are just made of rope, substitute a few feet of 1" webbing at the bottom of each loop (such that your sail rests on webbing, not on cord). Your sail will love you for it. This will give you lots of latitude for adjusting the lengths of each cradle line. And, if the webbing pieces are long enough (but not too long), they will be the things that come in contact with the sail cover, not cord (that will act as a convenient jeweller’s saw, both on your sail and on the cover).

I’ve attached a photo.

Ernie A. in Toronto

(attachments)

Webbing cradle lines.jpg
Webbing cradle lines.jpg1683×1245 292 KB

7

OK I will be the odd man out here. Many of my Nonsuch buddies have some version of a 'stack pack". And properly designed they work as advertised.

However I do not have one. Taking the traditional one on and off is a bit of work.

But:

  1. I need the exercise. An elaborate form of boat yoga actually. I do cheat by moving the sail off to one side so I can do it all from the deck vs cabin top.

  2. Sorry guys and gals they look odd when sailing.

  3. And most importantly I need all the extra sail area the stack pack would block in order to keep up with Mark and Nesta Powers and their tape drive monster sail.

8

Beauty Thor, is in the eye of the beholder.
Extra work removing, stowing, retrieving, and re-installing 25’ of Sunbrella very time you want to sail on the other hand can (with age) become a deterrent to going out for that quick sail on the spur of the moment.
I find that the easier I make it the more I sail.
….. and I’m sure Mark knows we all let him win… :grin:

Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.

9

Hear, hear, Paul Miller. I’m with you (and I only have 18’ of sail cover to deal with … and a crappy lower back). We all have our very own boat yoga, though.

Ernie A. in Toronto

10

I bought a Sailrite sewing machine a a few years ago. Primarily to make one of their Sailpack sail cover designs to replace the original standard sailcover that came with my NS 30U when I bought it in 1995. I followed the Sailrite plans and video. Except that I omitted the zipper and used snaps and quick release buckles with straps which IMO are less prone to failure than a full length zipper. Here is the Sailrite video on how to make the cover: https://youtu.be/JMB-r4mtK1Q

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island

11

When I bought Mascouche, she had a standard sail cover which I replaced with a stack pack in 2014. I estimate it gave me an extra hour for sailing however it was a compromise. First, it created a lot of windage which could be a problem where the moorings are not sheltered. Second, The position of the tack of a Nonsuch is close to the deck almost eliminating lines of sight forward. A stack pack makes a bad situation worse which is one of the reasons I changed the rig for sailing in old age. Now I have a tidy stack pack that sits on top of the 15’ boom 4’ above the deck giving clear lines of sight in all directions. It makes for far more relaxed sailing in congested harbours, especially when they are populated by foiling Wasps.
John Newell
Mascouche 26C #1
Toronto

DSCN5785.JPG
DSCN5785.JPG2592×1944 1000 KB

12

Thor failed to mention that Debbie does 90+ % of the work in removing and putting the sail cover back on. I thought My brother Rob was the only one that let me win.

Mark Powers

13

My $0.02 on the top-zipping sail cover is that I’ve timed myself, and can go from standing at the gangway gate to backing out of the slip in under ten minutes because of the sail cover and related things I’ve done to make departure efficient while still safe. If I didn’t hose down the boat after each trip, returning would be about the same.

Anything that increases time on the water and reduces time on chores has my vote.

– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233

14

Bob, is your sail cover permanently attached to the cradle lines like a stack pack?

Robin B

ZOE, 30U #307

SF Bay, CA

15

Do folks have any advice about adding openings for the cradle lines, like a more traditional lazy-jack set up. Attaching a pic of what the canvas person is suggesting…

I haven’t seen anything like it on a nonsuch before. Plus, it seems like a lot of work to strap in the lines each time.

Robin B

ZOE, 30U #307

SF Bay, CA

Screenshot 2023-01-09 at 10.08.49.jpg2034×1478 630 KB

16

90% of the supervision Mark :slight_smile:

17

Robin - Your guy is correct. “Slits” are what is needed and what you show in the photo looks very slick. I’ve attached a photo that kinda shows the slits (4 cradle lines) on my cover. You can see this best if you check out the cradle line that is the furthest forward. As I mentioned, I “re-made” the cover into a zip-top and removed all of the canvas that wraps around the mast. Prior to this, I had 4 x 8" slits put into the bottom of the cover as fighting with the sodden thing to get it around the cradle lines was hellish. And, as you can see, the cradle lines are not attached to the cover AND the cover is not attached to the sail.

As Paul mentioned, beauty is in the mind of the beholder. My “schmattah-like” cover dangling below my sail doesn’t look that sharp AND I might lose .0002 knots of speed but, boy o boy, it makes life easy and gets you out there and gets you to the bar/home/ the store, etc. in record time. When you have a 6 month sailing season (and you have passed the age of 40 … ), time becomes a consideration.

The slits on my cover don’t have a closure on the bottom. I cannot see any need for them. But, go for the slits.

Ernie A. in Toronto

(attachments)

Port View.jpg
Port View.jpg1112×475 138 KB

18

Sorry, Robin -

I missed the velcro in your photos. That might be a good idea as long as there is a nice gap for the webbing/cord to pass through as it supports the sail.

Ernie A. in Toronto

19

I do not have a stack pack. My sail cover is completely independent of (from?) the lazy jacks. It does not have slits in it. It has one long zipper and one short zipper. I lift the sail and pull the cover down around it before I do up the zippers. Any where daylight can reach the sail allows for UV damage.

Mark Powers

20

Robin,

You asked for a picture. These two are from my previous boat. The first shows how it looks under sail. The second how it looks zipped up at the dock.

They’re too big to post here, but you can see them at https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q1W5lSHzAMrIQ1ec53RpM65mvSAtlheV/view?usp=sharing and https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ea24zILGF6ryOR20UoU9OB6oiKDZJ7yg/view?usp=sharing
.
The tradeoffs in designs depend on how much performance you care about. I’m sure that a stackpack that lays flat on the sail improves performance over this.

My friend Phil has a Nonsuch 36 with an identically-designed cover. I’ve sailed on both my N26 and his N36 before and after converting to this cover design, and can’t say that I’ve noticed a performance impact on either.

This is speaking as a pleasure sailor and cruiser, though. A performance-oriented racer would not be caught dead with one of these, I suspect.

This specific design was developed by a group of Nonsuchers in the Chesapeake. The canvasmaker who specialized in them has since retired. I have enough information from him that I think I could steer you through getting one done elsewhere, though. If interested, get in touch with me off-line.

– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233