Hi All,
We’re wrapping up our first season with Soave, my curiosity about the integrity of our mast and it’s many fittings has peaked. I’ve decided to do a complete inspection this winter.
Question #1 - Mast removal. I have the instructions in sections 42 & 43 of the NS33 manual and I am aware of the value of adding something to prevent the bolt on the forward side of the mast from catching on the deck collar as the mast is lifted. Are there any other special instructions I should relay to the yard? They have several other NonSuch boats that they service ( about 1% if the 600 boats they store each winter).
Question #2 - Are there any other documents available ( besides the manual) about inspecting a NonSuch mast ?
Question #3 - Are there any “must do” upgrades I ought to do while Soave’s mast is down? I’m thinking LED lights and maybe a spare halyard. What else should I consider ?
Question #4 - While prepping the mast, ( marking wires to ease the effort of reassembly), I noticed a defect in the mast ( photo 1 and photo2 ). What are the proper steps to take to assess risk and remediate ?
I had my mast inspected and essentially rebuilt by Klacko Spars Inc. in Oakville in 2023. (They’re close to where Nonsuches we built and they’ve been repairing Nonsuch masts and booms for years.) They disassembled the two sections of the mast and put a new joining section in before reassembling it. Then they put new bolts through the joint. They checked the fittings top to bottom and installed new cables to hang the boom - front and back. They replaced the broken lights and installed metal brackets to protect each light. They rewired all the lights and radio wires while they were at it.
Hope this helps.
Will O’Hara
La Balena
Nonsuch 30U #487
Mimico Cruising Club
Toronto, ON
I noticed a missing bolt in the side of the collar in photo #1. Did you remove it? If not the threads in the collar may be stripped and in need of repair.
I had the thread problem and am now at 1/2”-13 bolts in those 4 holes.
You have a good eye Ward. No ( unfortunately) I didn’t remove any bolts. Yard workers these days rush through jobs, even at good yards like Safe Harbor in Westbrook.
Working in other areas of Soave, there were lots of places where details were skipped. I’m trying to be as hands-on as possible so I know where my risks are…
In the case of the mast bolts the broken heads were still lying next to the mast. I’m going to have to check each hole to see if there is a broken bolt in it before we start running the clock for the mast removal. ( labor rate is $184/hr ).
I second Rob’s suggestion that you take advantage of the INA free consultation service with Mike Quill (open the MEMBERS tab on the webpage, click on MAINTENANCE, and look for the line that says, "Submit mast and rigging questions by clicking here).
Also on the same page that comes up when you select MAINTENANCE are a set of factory bulletins on different topics. Look at both HINTERHOELLER MEMOS and SPARS AND RIGGING TECHNICAL INFO. These contain information about the spars which came out later than the manuals.
Note: these subsections on the MAINTENANCE page are each individually scrollable. Look for a scroll bar to each subsection’s right, which may only show up if you move your mouse over it. Scroll through each section to make sure you don’t miss anything.
Yes, please do contact Mike Quill about those holes. I had similar holes, though in a different location and he was very helpful.
If you don’t, here’s what I learned. He said that the holes are safe as long as they are not more than 20% of the thickness of the aluminum. He also said that the tension on the mast is greater on the forward side.
He recommended cleaning the holes with a StarBrite aluminum restorer (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EVIJPFI) and then filling with aluminum-compatible epoxy. (I used this one, which he agreed looked appropriate: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001RLYQ88 ) Scrub out the hole with a stainless wire brush (the smallest one you can find) and be sure and rinse well after the StarBrite stuff because it contains sulfuric acid which combines with aluminum to make aluminum sulfate. That is both structurally weak and water soluble, so not a good surface for the epoxy to adhere to. And then make sure the hole is utterly and completely dry (blow, heat, whatever it takes) before applying the epoxy.
BTW, they aren’t kidding about the 4 minute setup time on that epoxy. Don’t try to use it if it starts to gel. Just mix some more.
If you sand off or damage any anodizing during this repair, be sure and deal with it to protect the mast from further corrosion. Above the deck I had to do a lot of refinishing. I basically repainted the lower 7’ of my mast with a zillion coats of special primer and two part polyurethane paint. But below the deck I think you are not so worried about an elegant finish so you could just clean it and mix up some more of the aluminum epoxy and put it on with one of those plastic epoxy spreaders. And if you are careful with the hole-filling you shouldn’t need to sand so won’t even need to do that.
If you are doing this with the mast laying down, you will want to rotate it so the hole is on top. Then you might be smart to make a little dam around it with modeling clay because the StarBrite stuff contains sulfuric acid and you probably do not want it dribbling all over the place.
A final word: you are so lucky to be able to do this with the mast out! For you it will be a 30 minute repair.
Rob.
Looking at those worm holes leads me to speculate that there are aluminum eating worms that we don’t know about yet or that area was over stressed at one time in the past. How serious this is is beyond my knowledge .
The irregular indications in the mast look like weld porosity that happened when the mast was being made. The mast pieces were made by rolling aluminum plate into the the shape of a tube, then welding the two butting edges together. Thus there is a weld running along the length of the mast. If a crack hasn’t started by now, it is very unlikely there will be a problem in the future.
My understanding is that the blanks for Nonsuch aluminum masts are made by light pole manufacturers.
Below is a description of the manufacturing process. It looks to me like the defect in the mast photo is the result of a defect in manufacturing during the molding.
Aluminum
The manufacturing process for aluminum lighting poles is as follows:
Aluminum light pole manufacturers use molten aluminum to form the poles. It is put into a mold that matches the specifications of the light pole shaft. Aluminum is very malleable which means that it can be formed into a wide variety of shapes and sizes by extrusion. The base plate can also be cast but there is an option to cut it and form it from a sheet.
For anchor base poles, the base plate is then welded to the pole at the top and the bottom of the plate.
The hand hole and mounting holes are then cut into the pole.
Finally, there is an option to anodize the pole and base plate instead of powder coating
Ward: Thanks for the info about aluminum pole manufacturing. A manufacturing defect at this point in Soave’s life probably resolves to a “watch and wait” situation, but I will touch base with Mike Quill. If stress cracks haven’t developed by now, the defect is likely benign. Timely mast inspections are in my future. Probably going to have to learn to use our club equipment to pull Soave’s mast. Our local marina is looking pretty expensive to use every year for mast stepping.
I’m not sure I would have noticed this if I hadn’t been prepping for mast removal. Mast isn’t even out yet and we have two things to investigate:
Missing bolts on the mast step casting. Three missing and two with heads broken off. The broken ones are not engaged with the mast, so we should be able to lift the mast without any problem.
I’m pretty sure Klacko told me they are made by flag pole manufacturers. And they are made of spun aluminum. You can see the tooling marks in Rob’s Photo 2. Spinning produces a uniform piece which will spread stresses smoothly per the design of the mast. Welds produce edges where the material alloy, hardness, or thickness are different. These edges are where breaks begin.
The upside of a spun mast is the strength to support itself along with the controlled flexibility that we experience.
The downside of a spun mast is that you cannot repair it by welding. It has built-in tolerances and if damage exceeds them it must be replaced or it will break.
It may well be that the pit in Rob’s mast was a manufacturing defect. If so, it is so obvious that it would have been noticed and so must not be out of spec.
I’m obviously more sensitive to corrosion after my own experience and the stains around the pit make me wonder. It’s not really in a corrosion producing location. But what if a bird pooped on a spot where the anodizing had been scratched off when the mast was removed and it was not cleaned off all winter? I thing I’d give it a real close look when the mast is out again this year.
Hi All,
I’ve been processing the spar info on the INA website. Many thanks to the folks that collected and published it. It is a huge help.
SOAVE is a NS33, most of the documentation is for NS30’s that predate my boat. There are a number of spar upgrades suggested in documents that appear to be “original” on SOAVE. Some additional questions…
Besides the documents already published in the “Spars and Rigging Technical Info” section, are there any more recent documents that include more recent methods of inspection, maintenance, or remediation ? I’m feeling that new materials and/or ideas may have become available in the past 20 years and would like to know about them.
#7 in the reprint references a thru mast bolt that should be removed and discarded. I don’t see evidence of a thru bolt on SOAVE. Perhaps by 1987 33’s had modifications incorporated as standard ?
My fairlead collar is cast aluminum and seems to be isolated from the mast by a layer of nonconductive material. Do I need to verify the integrity of the nonconductive layer ?
SOAVE’s tack fitting is stainless and I assume it must also be properly isolated from the mast. Any advice on maintenance of the tack fitting ?
The retaining bolts in my mast step casting are either broken or missing. Soave’s PO seemed to have abandoned the idea of using them. Everything I’ve read is that they are important to keep the mast from shifting in the step casting. I’m curious if anyone else has had to repair seized bolts in their casting. How did you repair and how did you maintain them afterward ? Is the situation I found on Soave unusual ? ( missing and broken bolts ? )
Are you going to be in Stratford tomorrow? If so I can discuss/answer your questions there. I have the same cast aluminum fairlead collar as you. Newer 33s have a deck mounted “walker” instead of that mast collar. I have also struggled with mast positioning bolt problems in the base collar.
Regarding the “retaining bolts in the mast step collar”. We have had to redo 3 maybe all 4. The work was mostly done by Canatara’s co-owner Rob. The first attempt was to drill and re-tap for a larger size bolt. This lasted a season. Next we drilled and installed helicoils. It is a difficult place to work with drills and taps, and the new holes tend to want to go in on a downward angle. This solution seems to be holding up so far. I’m sure Rob will chime in if I’ve missed anything.
We went part of season without these bolts, and the mast does move around quite a lot. You can tell by the loud banging noise when the wind gets up and the boat tacks through the wind. Not sure what all the downsides are to this other than the awful noise it makes. Certainly doesn’t sound very healthy.
Bill Kroes
NS 36 #24
“Canatara”
Sarnia, Ontario
Lower Lake Huron
Regarding the fairlead collar, it should have a neoprene band between the main part of the casting and the mast, but it does not extend up beneath the “ears”. (Those bumps where the halyard block attaches.) It’s purpose is mostly just padding and twist prevention. There should be Sikaflex or 5200 behind the ears to further resist the collar twisting around the mast because that neoprene band is inadequate. The fairlead collar does not require electrical isolation because it is aluminum on aluminum.
The stainless steel tack collar is a different story. It does need to be isolated from the mast. I used this neoprene: https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/130/4058/9013K42
According to my own experience and conversations with Klacko, salt water can seep down between the neoprene and the mast, so it is important that the paint on the mast does not get chipped or scratched through where this collar is located. And any corrosion must be dealt with quickly before it goes too deep to save the mast. So you’ll also want to cut the neoprene wide enough and center it well so that the edges of the collar cannot squish down past it anywhere. I found that cutting it 1/8" wider than the collar served the purpose and did not look ugly. But it was fussy getting it correctly positioned all the way around. Also, I doubled it where the two ends of the collar make those sharp bends to the bolting flanges so the stainless wouldn’t punch through the neoprene.
I do plan to take my tack collar off every two or three years to inspect it and clean out the salt.
Rob: In regards to the mast step – soak them now with a good penetrant. Once a day (if you can) tap on them several times and soak them again. It may take a week or so. They have to be removed. They didn’t break by themselves, someone had to do it. Are their 3 or 4??
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Hi All,
Here is an update on Soave’s mast inspection. I’m glad I decided to do the inspection this winter. So far nothing tragic has been identified, but there have been lots of minor findings that I am happy to fix while they are still minor.
Today I went over our wishbone. I found corrosion showing from under the hanger pad-eyes. The corrosion is similar on both port and starboard, which leads me to believe this might be something to watch for on NonSuch boats in general. ( HERE ) is a photo. Whatever isolated the stainless pad-eye from the aluminum wishbone must have failed. The photo shows the hanger pad-eye which is through bolted to a pad-eye for the turning block for our 1st reef line.
My plan is to remove the pad-eyes and cleanup the corrosion. When I reassemble, I’m thinking of using 8 mil polyurethane tape ( like this ) to isolate the Pad-eye and the wishbone. Any other suggestions ? Has anyone else seen corrosion in this location ?
Back in 2018, I needed to replace rear wheel seals on my old John Deere tractor, the gear housing is cast aluminum and showed signs of corrosion. While I had it tore down, I decided to clean up the cast aluminum gear housing. I used a zinc chromate primer, and then repainted… and it still looks great. I was very surprised at how well the primer bonded to the areas of corrosion.
Has anyone done touch ups on areas of aluminum corrosion on their mast or wishbone ? What did you use ? I’m mostly thinking about areas under the stainless steel pad-eye.