Nonsuch 22 repower

Newsgroups Archive Prior to 2025
21

Oh Ye of Little faith.
Ernie, I checked the prices before I typed my first response. I guess I should have included the references. Here is a link:

http://www.annapolishybridmarine.com/resources/ePropulsion/POD%20Drive%20Leaflet.pdf

Prices may have gone up since the company did the posting. Steve is south of the Great White North so I used U.S. dollars.
I note that I left out the link for the Tohatsu motor. I think this is the one I used:

https://tohatsudirect.com/product/tohatsu-9-9-hp-mfs9-9eeftul-outboard-motor/

Ernie, you would know better than I whether 6 hp is enough for a 22. It might depend on usage. Is the motor for simply getting in and out of port? What distances and how much current do you have to deal with? Have you loaded the boat down with every conceivable convenience and aid to sailing (like Ernie) or do you want to race and therefore need to keep the weight down?

Mark Powers

22

Small computer security nit for Mark’s first link:
Try going to http_s_://www.annapolishybridmarine.com/resources/ePropulsion/POD%20Drive%20Leaflet.pdf instead (note the s added to the end of “http”).

Both links work, but https links have additional layers of security that prevent bad actors from inserting malware as data makes its way between source and destination. (Sorry to insert paranoia, but dealt a lot with this in a previous life.)

That said, Mark, the e-Propulsion offerings look pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing.

– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233

23

Guilty as charged, Mark - I have little faith. Oh pooooo …

Fortunately, that isn’t the case. These days, it’s best to have LOTS of faith (in just about everything). Mark is right on with his pricing - I just didn’t look hard enough.

OK - I’ll cave (somewhat). If Steven’s engine and saildrive are dead and there’s no going back, just maybe an ePropulsion 6 hp pod + battery (at around $8 K all in) is doable. As Mark wisely states, it all depends on a multitude of circumstances that dictate how much power you’ll need (or how much actual motoring you’ll do). Mike on BIANCA and several Lake Ontario sailors have, one way or t’other, found umpteen ways to make their electrified vessels go for hours and hours under instant and silent DC fossil-fuel-free power.

If I could have afforded it i.e. had the “discretionary funds”, and it was now and not 4+ years ago, I would have bought an ePropulsion standard outboard with that honkin’ big battery and loved the clean, silent, maintenance-free aspect of it all.

As there is a hole in the bottom of Steven’s boat, it sounds like a natural step to “modify” the hole and drop this pod right in. Nothing could be neater. Or, based on Mark’s discovery of an elcheapo Tohatsu dealer, fix the hole and go with the O/B for, likely, half the cost of electric.

I look forward to hearing from the poor victim in all of this, namely, Steven.

Ernie A. in Toronto

24

wow! I’m grateful for all the thoughtful responses. My boat is Dispatch #31. I’m going to go with the outboard on a bracket. I can’t swing the electric option. I’d love to get/make a bracket that I can raise and lower.

25

Hey Steven -

If you want a bracket that you can raise and lower, I respectfully suggest that you spend the bucks and buy a good reliable one. They are “counterbalanced” (using springs) and this makes the motor really easy to move. I would absolutely not build this myself - it could prove to be a Herculean and frustrating task and I truly don’t think that you’ll end up with one that works as well as one built by outfits that have been doing this for years. Far too fussy a piece of equipment. And, a store-bought one will cost you a few hundred bucks and come with a good warranty. If I’m right, you’ll have enough of a project to get that boat-anchor engine and saildrive out and patch ‘the hole’ without building this contrivance.

Here’s a nice one for $329.00

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/marinetech-products--adjustable-20-hp-2-stroke-or-15-hp-4-sroke-outboard-motor-bracket-stainless-steel-11-lift--17446881

Ernie A. in Toronto

26

If I was going the outboard route I would look at a Yamaha T9.9 25 inch and a 11x 7 inch prop. Or a Honda 9.9 @ 25 inch. The Honda comes with 3 props options , 10 x 6 ,11.25 x 8 and 11.25 x 9

So you’d need to understand which prop is best. I suspect the Honda 11.25 x 9 is the best, a Nonsuch 22 is at the higher weight end of outboard powered boats i would think.

27

At our first rendezvous we motored along side of a 22 for a while. The 22 had a high thrust 9.9 Yamaha. We had a 13 hp Westerbeke. I had to run the engine pretty hard to keep up with the 22.

Definitely need a prop designed for slow speeds. The standard props are intended for boats running at planing speeds.

Mark Powers

28

Dispatch came with a lovely swim platform. I came across a sliding mount from a company called Douglas. I like the idea. I wouldn’t mind keeping the platform, too. I’d have to cut down on my gybing.
https://douglasmarineproducts.com/

29

Hey Ernie. Sorry for not responding directly earlier. I’m hopeless with the computer. The engine completely siezed and the saildrive was already a bit fussy. Also a real pain to work on as all parts had to be ordered from Denmark.

30

That outboard management system is the cat’s meow!

Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT

31

Steve;

I’ve kept quiet here. But random thoughts in favour of keeping your current config.

There is a Bukh facebook group - go there and look for “Bukh Marine Diesel Owners”.

I know, I know. I love diesels and hate them, but I chose to replace the olde Westerbeke 13 with a BetaMarine diesel. The olde Westerbeke is now gracing another Nonsuch 26, which brings joy to my heart!

Harder to steal; one club I belonged to had some outboards taken by someone boating into the harbour in the middle of the night; chainsaws removed the transom around the locked outboards. I understand that the boats were scrap afterwards.(our past prez Ted can maybe fill in or call this BS as he still is a member of same club)

No flammable gasoline aboard. Lithium batteries also give me issues, but my wife thinks I’m paranoid. She’s always right. Even if the evidence…

Diesel contains something like 40x the energy of the equivalent weight of batteries, so if you need to go somewhere, refilling a diesel tank is easy, quick and can take you long distances.

I know Ernie and others like outboards, but in my past, I’d simply call them a PITA as compared to an inboard.

My current boat has a steering pedestal, with controls at hand - no removing ones gaze from the task at hand; ask any pilot about this. A boat I had in the Med. had a tiller, but manipulating the engine was done with my right foot, again, while keeping situational awareness.

The boat looks better without an outboard on it.

Now, that’s me and a choice I made. Rightly or wrongly.

We all make our own decisions, so whatever you do, please keep us informed. The NS22’s are lovely little boats. :slight_smile:

JohnS NS26C 046 that might be getting a new depth transducer, stored in Bath ON.

32

Hi Steve -

This thread is really getting interesting !! I fully agree with your notion of getting rid of all of that crappy old dirty greasy smelly stuff. I’d only keep the Bukh if you were looking forward to rebuilding all of that stuff. Our boats aren’t essential transport - they are there for us to enjoy. As such, some of us love to do major rebuilds and some of us don’t.

I do agree with John that the boat does look better without an outboard stuck on the back of it (but it also goes better with a nice power tilt engine swung out of the water with the push of a button). I do not go for that Douglas slide mechanism for the motor. Not one bit. Yes, maybe on a power boat but it is a huge (not pretty) piece of kit and, trust me, it’s utterly unneccesary, considering the neat and tidy alternatives.. There is no need to climb out onto your swim platform to raise and lower the engine, etc. I never touch my cantilevered mount once the sailing season starts. It’s set on it’s second lowest position and I just tilt the motor up and down - right from the cockpit using the button on the throttle shift handle. It is so simple.

Once again … a few hundred for the power tilt option on the motor and a few hundred for the motor mount. Plus, to be fair, you’ll need to reinforce the transom where you’ll install the mount and, of course, patch that hole for the saildrive. Granted, the Douglas mount may preclude you having to reinforce the transom (which is a job). So, on second thought, maybe it is the way to go (but … it’s SO big. It looks like something you would use to haul fishing nets up into the boat).

In the end, it’s, of course, your choice. Best of luck with how you proceed and keep us in the loop.

Cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto

33

Has anyone mentioned the effect of adding that much weight so far aft?? It would seem to me that it would drastically change the balance from inboard to outboard.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

34

Joe -

You make an interesting point but I would bet that when the idea of building 2 different NS 22s (the inboard with an 8 hp Westie and all the accoutrements 75% aft AND an O/B with a motor hanging off the transom) was floated (pardon the pun), there was no thought given to 2 different “designs” or even subtle changes, etc.

I don’t think that these boats differ. Mine has a 125 lb. engine hanging (sadly) even further back than the actual transom, in order to permit it to tilt. The boat sits dead level in the water (even disregarding the 1000 lbs. of desperately required luxuries that Capt. M. Powers insists are aboard … ). She sails as flat as any other windsurfer with a toaster-oven and flat-screen TV and motors at almost 6 knots at about 2/3 throttle, still reasonably flat. Yes, arse-on, that motor isn’t the saltiest, most traditional or prettiest thing but, at least, it’s not Day-Glo orange. I do not authorize any photos to be taken of the bum of my boat (unless I take them).

I’ve attached a photo of MOUSTACHES heading back after a sail. I had just bought my new engine and it was not sitting quite as deep in the water as it is now (it’s about 6" too high in the photo). The boat looks pretty level. Personally, I think that re-designs should be routine considering the weight of the skipper, not the motor.

I single-hand MOUSTACHES almost all the time (as other club sailors are, wisely, too afraid to go out with me … and my Sandra doesn’t like to sail). My engine makes motoring, docking and departing an absolute breeze. It is locked into a forward position and the boat is steered strictly with the tiller. This model of my engine has no tiller and is run from a typical remote throttle with choke, key, kill-switch, etc., mounted on the starboard side. The engine is screwed onto the thick plastic pad of the movable motor mount (using the 2 typical large “screw” thingies that one finds on any motor) and is also bolted and locked to it and the rest of the mount. It is stealable (just like an Airstream trailer, an airplane or one’s Toyota 4-runner) but it would, indeed, take a gorilla with a chainsaw and lots of poor judgment to attempt to do so. And, it’s all covered up from prying eyes, in the winter (of our collective discontent) when the boat is on the hard. Motors that are not locked and bolted (and I mean bolted) to their respective boats do get swiped - a lot.. If you don’t want your Toyota 4-runner to take a walk ( or a drive) use a “Club” on the steering wheel. They work, according to the cops. Besides, who would run to the “aid” of a poor vehicle being stolen when they hear a car alarm ?? These, days, you might be met with a gunshot blast - not worth it.

Sorry - I drifted off topic but I wanted to address the theft issue which is a valid point.

To sum up, I still support the idea of Steven switching out his existing power setup to something completely different, on a 22’ 35= year old recreational vessel. I truly support the notion of electric power, on the right vessel, given it’s use, etc.

Ernie A. in Toronto (where the temperature seems to swing wildly, from day to day)

(attachments)

Motoring back 2017.jpg
Motoring back 2017.jpg1631×1285 281 KB

35

Ernie - that’s a good point about putting the outboard engine controls where they are convenient - I have never been on an outboard-driven boat wired in that way. It makes sense. I used to do a lot of crewing around the Niagara area back in the day and got to sail in some interesting boats of all sizes and shapes.

When you have to turn around, reach down, fiddle with the throttle or reverse, that gets old fast. As does removing the outboard when sailing and stowing it (e.g. Sharks, for us Lake Ontarians) and one I used to race before the brain was fully developed - a Sprinta-Sport 23 - the engine was removed from the transom, engine-mounted fuel tank shut off (you only forgot that once) then slid into a locker in the cockpit floor when heading out racing.

I do think though that in hindsight the space taken by the diesel could be better utilized as a wine-keg or beer-keg storage location; close to the cooling effects of the water on warm days, to help with the after-docking relax time. I think a keg of the BC Beer “Fat Tug” might be appropriate in a kindly way. :wink:

(on a serious note, relating to the “keg” mention above, I used to crew on a boat sailed by a very social guy who would invite anyone out for a sail; this was when I was below drinking age. My job was to sail and dock the boat (using his wife as my crew) when the owner got too drunk and passed out. Big responsibility as a teenager, and the “save the alcohol for when docked” has been my rule since)

JohnS, NS26C, no outboard for the dinghy yet,
lying Bath ON, waiting for longer, warmer days.

36

Nice photo, Ernie A. in Toronto.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

37

The Douglas Marine slider is a more sophisticated but similar concept to the system we used on the C&C. I suspect it costs more as well. Provided the rails have enough travel it is not necessary to tilt the engine to get the prop out of the water while sailing. It will however move the engine head closer to the top of the transom where it will be more at risk of being snagged by the mainsheet. A possible solution would be to make a bracket/cage that would direct the sheet up and over top of the motor.

Mark Powers

38

quick update on Dispatch’s repower. My wife, Maria, thinks it would be a shame to drill all those holes and hang an ugly outboard off the back so why don’t we just get a new saildrive. Besides, the swim platform is kind of nice.
Now I ask you, what kind of husband would I be if I were to deny a request like that?
The Yanmar came in about $4,000 less than the Beta. Now I just have to figure out how to get the old engine out. I’m thinking of cutting an opening in the cabin sole.

39

Steven,
I didn’t see where you declared your boat model. Lacking that information, I will offer my input anyway since my experience is with N22. I needed to rebuild my engine bed stringers which of course required removal of the engine. I removed the alternator and raw water pump so it would fit through the engine room access behind the companionway. I used a combination of a ratchet strap (heavy duty) hung from the forward end of each locker opening, and with a chain hoist suspended from a sideways 2X4 across the companionway hatch slide rails. Along with some foot coaxing, struggling and classic sailor words, I got it moved onto the cabin sole. I had placed a sheet of 1/4" luan board to protect the cabin sole. If yours is a 22, then this is the only practical way I can imagine, the bigger boats you will need input from those owners.

Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda

40

Every wife should have a considerate husband like you.

Are thinking of cutting the hole in the cockpit sole or the cabin sole?

La Reina does not have a sail drive but when we pulled the engine we unbolted it. Cut of the exhaust elbow and pulled the engine into the cabin and then lifted it out of the companion way. I have not worked on the 22 but I am wondering if the best way is to unbolt the sail drive leg and take the engine into the cockpit.

I am disappointed that the Beta is $4000 more than the Yanmar they used to be competitive on the pricing. Glad I bought mine a few years ago.

Mark