I'm looking to install a radar on my mast this year.
There seem to be two options for location - below the wishbone or near the mast joint.
From what I've seen, the higher installation allows you to make a hole in the mast and pass the cable inside. (Is it REALLY safe to do this? After so many years hearing that we should NEVER make holes in the mast, I have to ask.)
The lower installation has the advantage of easier access, but creates a problem feeding cable into the boat.
I'd like to hear from anyone who has thought thru the pros & cons (and maybe some issues I haven't thought of yet).
Meander has her radar mounted above the wishbone, so that the choker and hangar lines don't rip it off when we sail downwind.
The cables run down the exterior of the mast in a protective sheath that is more or less fastened to the mast with small screws at as few points as possible.
The mount is fastened to the mast with what are essentially super-giant hose clamps. They run around the mast and UNDER the sail track. We shimmed the track so that it makes the tiniest possible slope up and over the already very thin metal strips holding the radar in place.
The radar has been in place for 9 years, with no issues, and through sturm and drang. Even when the other boat was dropped on our mast during the winter a couple of years ago, the radar casing cracked but the mount remained solid.
FWIW, and YMMV, and all the rest of the qualifiers apply . . .
Marion Gropen
Meander, NS36 #41, 1986
North Shore YC
Port Washington, NY
My radar is installed above the wishbone on a custom stainless mount. The mount is made of 1/4" stainless and is basically in the form of a band of 4" wide strapping the wraps around the mast and clamps in place with two bolts. This band runs under the sail track without shims of any kind. The cables does run through a hole in the mast at the joint. It has been this way for at least twenty years and there is no visible sign of cracks or flaws in the mast. If you plan to go this way be sure to smooth out the hole after drilling with some emery cloth so there is not a point where a crack could start. If I was to do it again I would think long and hard about drilling the hole. That being said, from what I have heard most masts that have failed have broken at deck level.
Jamie Morrison
Dexterity II
30U 225
Halifax, Nova Scotia
I can report our experience on Lionheart, which has been without
incident for the past 20 years. We added radar to Lionheart back in
the early '90s, and did so by mounting the radome at the mast joint
and cut a slot in the mast for the cable.
At that time Hinterhoeller was still in business, and I called the
factory and discussed the idea of running the cable through a hole in
the mast with them. Their advice was that one must make an elongated
hole (slot) below the mast joint, and no further away than 24". The
slot should have a ratio of 5:1 with a radius at each end. This
essentially describes a slot 1/2" wide and 2 1/2" long with 1/4"
radius rounded ends. Pretty much identical to the halyard slot
below. After cutting the slot, all edges must be filed smooth, inside
and out, and finished with Emory cloth or similar to make a very
smooth edge. The idea is to eliminate a source for stress cracks
which are more likely to form from round holes as well as rough
edges. The slotted hole allows for mast flexing.
The project is documented with photos on the INA site under
Installation Ideas>Radar Mount. Some notes:
- The mounting bracket is held to the mast with band clamps, as
Marion has described. I used white electrical tape to insulate the
bands from the mast.
- The mount was manufactured by Metal Mast Marine, in Putnam, CT. I
am not sure they are still in business, but I think others have
duplicated the design.
- In order to facilitate removing the mast, I purchased a 30'
extension radar cable (with connectors) from Raytheon which runs from
the nav station to the base of the mast. This leaves a connector at
the base which mates with the original cable running to the radome.
- After installing the radar cable, I closed the slotted hole with
clear silicone sealant.
- The hole made it very convenient to add a foredeck light attached
to the radar mount and run the power cable alongside the radar cable.
A real handy addition.
- I have a copy of the instructions that Hinterhoeller faxed me,
which I can forward to anyone interested.
Are Cedric and Anna speaking from experience ?
If so, maybe I can help.
It happened to me once, first race after installation during a Hudson River jibe.
A minor adjustment to the pedestal and Radar Scanner and has not
happened since, 12+ years.
Born to Run has radar installed below the wishbone with cable run down the forward side of the mast. No holes in the mast; clean and easy installation. You may be able to see the installation in the photos online.
NS 33, #42
Michael Passero
New London CT
As with most things in boating, the placement of radar involves a
series of compromises.
I have see and heard of radar placed on the stern on a post, above the
mast joint, below the mast joint and in one case, on a pole in front
of the mast. Each position seems to have its own pluses and minuses.
On the stern there is the risk of snagging the mainsheet and of
radiation exposure. It sounds as if with careful design, the risk of
snagging the mainsheet can be reduced. Modern digital radar and
especially broadband radar consume less power and radiation is
therefore less of an issue. The height of the pole can effect the
radiation exposure risk as well. The advantages are no holes in the
mast and less of a blind spot. When the dome is mounted on the mast
there is a blind spot immediately behind the vessel. On Swoose the
dome is mounted on the mast and Dick Lane was almost run down in the
fog by a tug pulling a log boom that came right up behind him. The
mast blocked the radar from picking up the tug.
Mounting the dome below the mast joint has the problem of putting
holes in the mast and the blind spot. People have come up with ways to
mount the dome without putting holes in the mast. The wires can be run
down the front of the mast and though a deck fitting. Usually the
radar is high enough that radiation is not a concern. The blind spot
is bigger then when the radar is mounted above the boom because the
mast is thicker. Should the halyard wrap around the dome it is easy
to clear.
Mounting the dome above the boom means that drilling holes in the mast
are not as big of a concern. The dome on La Reina is mounted in that
location. The wires can be run inside the mast. Radiation is not a
problem. The blind spot still exists although to a lesser degree
because the mast is thinner higher up. When the halyard wraps around
the boom it is difficult to clear. It is not possible to simply flip
the halyard forward around the dome. Before I learned how to clear the
halyard with a light line I had to tape two boat hooks together and
stand on the cabin top on my tiptoes to push it around the dome. The
halyard always got caught when the seas were rough. If the halyard is
secured to the sail but the sail is not hoisted the halyard always
catches. On the first wave we hit, the top of the mast flexes and puts
slack in the halyard. Then as the mast straightens it shoots the
halyard forward and around the dome. Another problem is weight
aloft. A 10 pound weight, 20 feet about the deck is roughly the
equivalent of 200 pounds on the keel.
Mounting the radar on a pole in front of the mast avoids halyard,
mainsheet and hole in the mast problems. Depending on the height of
the post radiation should not be a problem. The blind spot would still
exist but to a lesser degree. As the distance between the dome and the
mast increases the blind spot is reduced. The post will have an impact
on the foredeck space.
You need to consider the pros and cons and choose the location that
works best for you.
Mark Powers and Nesta Davies
La Reina 26C
Burrard Civic Marina
Vancouver B.C.
When I purchased our 30U, it had a RADAR set that worked intermittently. Since the type of sailing I do and the area I sail in are such that the lack of RADAR is not a big deal, I removed it to reduce the weight aloft and the bulk of the repeater in the cabin. It is not missed. The bracket was bolted above the split with several holes through the mast. Having used RADAR in the Navy, I’ve found that mounting it just forward of the mast has less of a blind spot then you would assume due to the effect of the boat always moving, pitching and rolling. In addition, the target aft is never in the exact same position thereby the unit will “paint” vessels behind in intermittent sweeps. The platform is still there and supports the TV antenna and possibly RADAR in the future. When the halyard snags on the platform, it’s usually due to me going downwind with the sail down and the halyard bent on. I can normally go all the way forward with the boat going upwind and unfoul it by flicking it back around.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221 (1984)
Sea Harbour Yacht Club
Oriental, NC
I have my radar mounted on a stern pole for the past 15 years. Works flawlessly. Has never snagged the mainsheet (because the top of the pole is higher than the boom end) Highly recommended.
I second the stern pole installation on the transom. Even with the Murray Cressman extension never a problem. Also to improove forward visability for my 5’7" frame I opted to install the screen inset into the starboard bulkhead in the cockpit (at the end of the seat) rather than over the binnacle.
Hi Bob and Margaret
Sorry we missed your call. We were out til 8:30 last night so it would have been too late to call. We have our radar on a post at the bow about 18 inches from the mast. Stupid place!!
All is well here. I have healed up well and am back to normal activities. Sailed twice last week. Thursday it was really cold and we had a five hour sail-motor to deliver a boat to Marina Del Rey from Long Beach. I had five layers of clothes and I was still cold. Tomorrow we are taking a friends sail to the sail loft to be sewed on the leach line. I have tons of work to do on the water and sanitary system on my boat before January 18 when we are going to Catalina for five days. I need help because some stuff is heavy-floor and table. Hopefully it will be done before the 17th. Hope all is well with you and we are looking forward to seeing you next month.
Happy New Year
Phil
I have a taller pedestal guard with the radar display mounted on a swinging bracket just under the top.
This allows easy access to the controls etc. from the helmsman’s seat which is raised the equivalent
of three thicknesses of seat cushion. The display also mounts below to port over the head of the quarter berth.
Great location for watching the progress of thunderstorms.
I "third" the stern pole. I agonized about this right after buying
"Amity" in Seattle in September of 2009, as she had no radar and I
needed to replace the electronics anyway. Our pole is mounted on the
extreme starboard side of the transom as close to deck level as
possible and it is over 6 feet high. With the supposed 15 degree from
horizontal beam spread, I shouldn't be experiencing much radiation
with my head at 6 feet above the cockpit sole. No wrapping of the
mainsheet yet....can't even figure how that could happen in my
installation. Not having had a Nonsuch before, I was concerned mostly
with boom clearance when I had the radar mounted. I don't have the
extension, but clearance is plenty the way it is at present.
I have also read online elsewhere about people objecting to the stern
mount because of looks. I think ours looks just fine, but maybe it's
because we have a hardtop dodger that helps balance it out.
I also have been pleased with the display mounted on the starboard
side of the cockpit bulkhead as Bob Jenkins has.