I gearing up to install an electric windlass. I can wire to either the start or house side.. I am leaning to using the house side.
We’ll be running the engine when we use it and there about 80 amps output max.
The start and house combine via a Blue Seas ARC when the engines is running
It will be
Battery to common positive 18 inches 4awg
Common positive to breaker 18 inches 4awg
Breaker to windlass 22 feet 2 awg
Are there issues with using these short runs of 4awg?
I would make the entire run #2. You’ll have a little less voltage drop and the extra expense is not a lot.
Your run is 25’ total from the battery to the windlass and back to the battery? If so, #2 is the right size. If the length out and back is really 50’ 3/0 is the size.
If you have excessive voltage drop, the motor will not provide full power and will run hot.
Do you have any short circuit protection at the battery?
I got the 2 AWG from using the next size up off the windlass instructions, they had 4 AWG for runs up to 50 feet and 2 AWG for 60 to 80 feet
Blue Seas wire size guide yielded the same 2 AWG
Both banks have short circuit fuses but the windlass needs a breaker.
I am using the two way distances. It’s a 700 watt motor.
Most of these wire size tools assume 12V . But with the engine running the voltage will be 13.5 - 14.6.
Thor,
Do you mean 22’ from the battery to the windlass and 22’ from the windlass back to the battery? If that is the case the cables should be sized from the 50’ column at 3% voltage drop. That reads as 3/0.
#4 is good to 30’ at a 3% drop.
Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT
Thor, what model is your new windlass and where are you putting it on your boat?
Howard Wright
NS 26C Merrythought
Thor, quick response; packing up to go to the boat.
700 watts at 12.5v is 56 amps, maximum.
I’d assume that that is the stall current - hopefully you’ll never get to that point for more than a couple of seconds every year or 10, or 20… 
If it is a brushed DC motor (not sure about brushless motor curves but expect they are the same) then max power will be about 50% amps; so lets say 30 amps.
My go-to DC wire selection chart:
10% voltage drop, 30 amps, 4AWG 130 feet round trip.
3% voltage drop, 30 amps, 4AWG will get you about 40 feet round trip.
One could work out the resistance of the total circuit, to see what possible effect of the short bits of #4 you are planning on will do.
Ward is right on many (ok, all) aspects; and to go a bit over spec than under is better than not; if you are paying for crimps, and for someone to properly crimp, than that cost is fixed, and the wire cost difference (between #2 and #4) is minimal in the scheme of things.
(This past spring I did the battery/starter/etc cables; got rid of the #4 welding cables and replaced with #2. Things work better now; but that may be because ABOUT 3 CRIMPS fell off when I moved the old #4 wiring. Another fell off when pulling one of the old cables back. These crimps were loose)
Just something to think about.
I keep getting AWG 2 from the charts and calculators I have found. It is 44ft round trip for the run.
Based on what I am hearing same wire all the way.
It’s a Lewmar1000 Horizontal with 80 feet of 1/4 G4 and miles of 1/2 rode. Seems to be the most popular around here.
Lewmar’s wire table says I am in the middle of the AWG 4 range …
At 50A you are correct with 4AWG.
I used 80A and the Blue Seas table. Using the Blue Seas Circuit Wizard at 50A, 3% voltage drop and 1 minute duration results in 4AWG.
The Lewmar Pro-Fish 1000 instructions do indicate 50A normal current draw.
Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT
I installed the same windlass earlier this year on my 26C and used 6 AWG which is what I thought the chart read. Seems to work just fine.
Something to consider is that heavy guage wire is difficult to work with. (cut, bend, find connectors) I found the 6 was a challenge so I imagine 4 or 2 would be even more so.
Another comment on the install is that it would be way easier with the mast off. I did it with the mast on but it was very difficult to cut off the mounting stud bolts. And they need to be cut cut because they are 4" long? and almost certainly would catch on your chain when retrieving the anchor.
Ken Julian
“Idyll Ours” 26C#9
Saint John, NB
Coincidentally, We too are putting in a windlass on our 26C this winter.
We were going to go for the Lewmar V700 with 120’ of 1/4" chain. Any cautions around this?
We typically anchor in 15-25’ of sand or weed. (Rocna 10)
The other recommendation that was made to us was put a separate battery and the controls in the starboard cubby beside the mast locker.
The main argument was that:
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
FWIW I have a fwd battery for the windlass and bow thruster on my 30U. I have an FET isolator that separates my batteries and run a double AWG10 charging circuit. I find it a good solution partly because I’m not a fan of long runs of heavy wire. The fwd battery never gets low because the engine is almost always running when it gets used. The runs are short, voltage drop is non existant, and there is no connection with my other banks that could result in their accidental depletion.
Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.
Thank you Paul,
This is the set-up that was recommended to us. Great to know it’s a real thing and used on a Nonsuch.
The reasons why you like it are exactly why we are interested.
Question: what’s the ideal battery (not lithium) $$$ for this purpose?
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
Thanks Mike,
I used a reasonably priced sealed lead acid battery that can charge on the same settings as my AGM house bank when on the charger. This battery gets very light use and is always fully charged so I didn’t feel a more expensive battery was warranted.
120 feet of chain is a lot of chain. We were in the North Channel for 10 hears we used 60 feet anchoring generally in 20 feet. We been through many nasty thunderstorms at anchor and never budged. The nylon rode plays a big role in keeping you set by cushioning the force as the boat pulls against the anchor. So when thunderstorms were forecast we were on 60 feet of chain and 60 - 80 of rode. With 120 feet of chain you will often not have enough anchorage to run the rode you will need.
II am changing from 60 feet of 5/16 to 1/4 and moving from 60 to 80 feet so the chain weight will be the about same. I find now we mostly now in 50 feet so the extra chain is a trade off. I am not getting younger and hauling 20 feet of chain of the bottom with my manual windlass is not the same as 50 feet!
Reasons I have not gone the battery up front route are
The 26 is already nose heavy, Hinterholler once remarked that the 26 could use 200 lbs more in the stern.
I have wet cell golf carts and I just can’t be bothered with the upkeep of this type of battery in the space I have available up front. The costs of wire is a one time cost vs battery replacement.
It’s a somewhat simpler design.
Now if I was using lithium batteries I think a bow battery would be in the equation. The one thing I can’ get my head around is the charging needs / cable sizes for the forward battery. Lithiums and AGM will suck more amps so at the end of the day don’t you need some large wire to deal with this? My 120 amp alternator is de rated to 80 due to belt size. But it rarely pushes half that due to wet cells charging profiles. But I am led to be believe that AGM or lithiums would take all it puts out, so don’t you need wire size to the front to deal with this potential 80 amp load?
For all I have read it appears that properly done both approaches work. But in the battery aft case wire size is the bear in the room…
Different circumstances will require different solutions and I agree with your thoughts with one possible exception, the charging draw of the fwd battery.
Given that the engine is running when the fwd battery is used, it will likely never be on bulk charge so charging amps (AGM and FLA anyway) will likely never be very high.
Mine ran fine with a single AWG10 charging circuit but I eventually doubled it up just to be on the safe side.
Hi Thor,
Those are some salient rationalizations for your choice route.
We’re thinking “all chain” to avoid the chain/nylon transition issues through the windlass.
My old school reference was always 7:1 scope, but acknowledge 5:1 is de rigure. Thus a 25’ depth would need 120’ of scope “to be safe” .
We appreciate it’s easy to sit on a moral high ground and say, “7:1 scope or I told you so” and 5:1 is safe..and 3:1 is used more often than is claimed.
Oh yes, the 26C is nose heavy and lists to port. We solved that partially with a swim platform and a 200lb dinghy/motor combo at the stern.
Battery forward must be on the starboard side as the 26c is port heavy.
At the end of the day, thankfully there are more than one way to skin this cat (pun intended).
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
Mike - lots of chain/rope splicing videos and instruction. Free Range Sailing has a good one that is my reference:
should get you there, if I copied this correctly.
They have a boat that is “Nonsuch 26C” sized (roughly) so what they do kind of fits what we should do. (i.e. it’s not a Beneteau 80 with helipad or anything like that)
JohnS NS26C Cat’s Whiskers, getting refrigerated at the moment, Bath, ON
Since we’re discussing rode, I have a 5/16’ chain/ 5/8" 8 braid nylon rope combination that I use with my Lewmar Pro Series 1000. It works great with the chain but I find the nylon rope slips quite badly in the gypsy that came with the windlass.
Ken Julian
“Idyll Ours” 26C#9
Saint John, NB
I installed a Lewmar V2 with vertical captain two years ago to lift a 45lb Car on100 ft. of 3/8 chain and 350 ft of rode. I always lift with the engine running and have been very happy with its performance. That sucker could lift the Titanic.
Barry Connell
N36 Nocturne
Newburyport, MA
The below text is from the Lewmar manual. Bold was added by me. They make three gypsies. Two are suitable for 5/8" rope in either 3 strand or 8 plait and 5/16" chain. One of the two is for 5/16" G4 chain. The other is for 5/16" BBB chain.
4.3 Gypsy Suitability Gypsies fitted to the Pro-Series / Pro-Fish windlasses are ideally suited to handling our factory made Rope/Chain combination rodes, which consist of rope spliced to a chain tail. See §2 Specifications for details. Ropes used must be windlass grade, medium lay nylon. Ropes from different manufacturers have wide variations in stretch and consistency in diameter. Therefore, rope and chain from other manufacturers may require some experimentation to determine the optimum size. Should you have difficulty in matching a gypsy to your chain please consult your local agent or our international distributors.
Ward Woodruff
