I am unsure whether to go with a vertical or horizontal windlass. It seems with a vertical, one would need to raise it considerably on some kind of pad in order to have proper height alignment
Less elevation for a horizontal type. Am I thinking right? How thick a pad are people using? Has anyone tried to make a pad that ramps up in the front so the windlass is tilted toward the bow roller?
Randall B. nonsuch 30U #372
This storm will be to the north of me
To the south of Ernie..
Along Lake Erie
I put the plow on the truck and charged the tractor!
Let the wind blow
And the tide flow
We know the way to go.
Brian
Boat-less in New England
My 33 came with a Maxwell vertical windlass. The motor and gearbox are below the deck. If something went wrong with the motor or gearbox while the mast was stepped, it would be next to impossible to access the works for repair or replacement.
If replacement became necessary, I would replace the windlass with a horizontal type. That way, all the works are above deck.
Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT
Today’s lesson: Don’t assume LEWMAR engineering is perfect.
The project today was building a 1.5" flanged plinth for the windlass to raise it closer to gunwhale height of the bow roller.
The medium is HDPE.
To start with, I used the baseplate that’s installed under the deck as a template for shape and the holes.
I then cut the outline using a std jig-saw at 45 degrees.
Next was drilling the 3/8" holes that align to the bolts, then the 2.5" and 4" keyhole saws for the main holes (as defined by the paper plan).
An hour later with some sanding and it looked done…
Yes, it did align to the main bolt holes,…but there was some under and overhang of the top SS casting when paired with the HDPE block.
HMMMM, turns out the baseplate and main unit casting are slightly different shapes. No idea why. Seems they may be trying to use the same baseplate for different models? In the end, with the 45 degree angle I was able to refinish the HDPE block to a proper shape.
Picture 2: the baseplate matches the dark outline Lewmar provides for drilling the deck. The grey marker line is the actual shape of the cast upper unit.
Picture 3:Template vs baseplate vs actual head unit.
Picture 4: Tighter picture of the offset between baseplate and head unit. 7mm out at points.
Now on to the next step: Deck surface prep.
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
I think you have the wrong gasket in the kit. I’d contact Lewmar.
As for the deck plate, I had to mould the underside to fit the deck camber as well. I used a spokeshave with a curved blade.
Thanks Thor,
Re deck camber: If you were to guess, what would you think the depth of the concave shape to be?
I’ll get to the boat tomorrow to lay the new pad on the deck to see what I’m facing.
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
Mike -
Here’s an exploded view of the windlass from the Lewmar catalogue along with the parts list, etc.
https://www.lewmar.com/node/11616
There appear to be TWO choices under “Mounting Kit”, a metric and a North American version. It would be very hard to believe that the parts would be genuinely out-of-whack from Lewmar, but easy to believe that you may have purchased a windlass that had the WRONG mounting kit in the box (kinda like what Thor suggested).
Ernie A. in Toronto
Mike,
Following up on Ernie’s post, I notice in your Picture 3 that the drawing you worked from has a gasket with one hole in the upper-right side, whereas the one they sent you has two. In the Lewmar link that Ernie sent, it looks like the drawing is of the upper gasket labelled #38 whereas the one on the right in your picture is the lower one (labelled #18). Could that be a factor?
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
Mike -
I hope that you are OK with my “detective” work and not feeling that I am trying “to point out errors” (not that you have erred at all). It’s just that this situation is proving to be interesting to me and, I think, to many others.
In that spirit, here is, I believe, the installation and owners manual for (I hope) your windlass. (Tho it is marked GB for great Britain, I’ll bet it’s the same with respect to the install.)
https://www.lewmar.com/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/V700%20manual%2065001022-iss8-Eng.pdf
Check out pages 15 and 16. Look at parts #18 and #38. It looks like the base mat #38 sits under the machine on top of the deck (or a raised plinth) and the clamping plate #18 fits under the deck.
I have the feeling that what you used for the “baseplate” is, in fact, the clamping plate that lives under the deck and, possibly, you are missing the real “baseplate” which is called the base mat. Also, interestingly, it looks like one can, in certain installations, forego the use of the base mat by using lots of sealant ( maybe ?? I think .. ???).
Curioser and curioser …
Ernie A. in Toronto
Hi Ernie.
No offence taken. The whole reason to post the journey here is to get some second opinion and learn from the process.
Correct, what I was referring to as the Base plate is in fact the clamping plate… that I expected to have the same outline as the windlass casting up top.
They do provide a white “rubber” gasket that is the same shape as the casting (base mat) and I presume would help seal between the windlass casting and the deck.
Yes, I’ll be using the 3M sealant between the deck and plinth as well as the casting and the plinth…unless someone has a better goo idea?
I suppose it’s not critical the “clamping plate” isn’t a 100% match to the casting, it just seems odd, and I was wondering if any other V700 installs had (or noticed) this offset.
Tomorrow is about figuring out how much camber the deck has relative to the plinth, and then figuring out how to spell and use a spokeshave…
Hi Bob, the two holes thing was a bit odd too. however…one hole is for the bollt/stud and the other one close by is for an odd bit of the casting that seems to needlessly stick out proud from the bottom.
So, the holes all line up…it’s just that odd offset between the “clamping plate” and the casting above that seemed like a less than tidy bit of engineering…but then I’m not an engineer, so maybe this asymmetry is planned? You’d probably never notice unless like me, you used the clamping plate as a template and had too much time awaiting a snow squall to pass…
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
Can an angle grinder or disc sander be used to produce the required curve on the underside of the plastic plinth?
Hi All,
So yes, there is camber to the fore-deck,…but not much. ~2mm.
I measured the lift of the plinth plate at the edges, and used a profile gauge to measure and create a cardboard template.
I’m also going to add a custom cut 1/2" (13mm) hard rubber gasket under the plinth to add a bit of height and increase the waterproofing This may mitigate the need to do any shaping for the plinth to match the deck.
Below: Alignment of the rear holes is ahead of the bulkhead, and the incoming chain lines up with the gypsy enough that there’s no need for overlap with the hausepipe flange.
Could drilling the deck be far away?
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
Mike;
There is an aluminium angle in there, in front of the side-to-side bulkhead. The two bolts you see in your pics go through this angle and are nutted underneath, so you may want to be prepared to drill through aluminium and modify the clamping plate??
I’m sure you’ve figured this out, but it is always better to be prepared when getting ones self to that part of the boat, especially when the cover is on. (at least in my experience)
John Stewart NS26C 046, Bath ON.
tx, I’ll stick my head in and look again!
Found a pic from when we got our boat. Top is Bow; you can see mast at bottom. Anyway, this is what our boat looks like. And, pardon the grime - Deb had not yet got in there to do her epic cleaning. Done by holding the camera in past the mast to see what was in there.
John NS26C 046 Bath ON.
Wow, that’s quite a big lip, and just in the wrong place.
I’ll look into relocating my bow roller to the port side of the Sampson post and translating the whole windlass to port and forward to get it in a “cleaner” spot…
hmmm,
Good thing I’d not drilled yet…
At least I have time,
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
Install update:
After considering John’s note about the hidden angle bracket in the anchor locker, we decided to make the move from starboard to port.
(see old position paper template below vs new hole)
Left on the starboard side, the angle bracket would require us to translate the windlass forward to the point that the holes for the hausepipe and windlass would be within 1" of each other. structurally this is probably not a good idea. So…We’ll move the windlass placement to the port side. This new alignment forces us to reposition the anchor roller from one side of the Sampson post, to the other.
Day 1: Anchor roller relo.
- 4 sheered bolt heads and a grinder later, the roller was free. (Thanks permanent loctite).
- Advice needed: how best to remove the black oxidization stain from aluminum Sampson post?
The re-install on the port side was smooth…but it took a whole day.
- Advice needed: how best to remove the black oxidization stain from aluminum Sampson post?
Day 2: Alignment and hole drilling
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Tricky to keep the template aligned with the chain orientation.
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Holes drilled without drama.
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Note: deck is 1.5" here with 1/4" fibreglass sandwiching 1"ply.
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No delamination, no sponginess, all dry. Great hull construction.
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Pre-installed the windlass to check bolt alignment. All good.
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No issue with deck camber.
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Advice sought: What’s the best sealant for the raw deck cut? Just silicone? Trying to avoid messy epoxy.
Day 3: Pump up the Bass
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This windlass will be served on a tapered oreo cookie base. (no painting/varnishing/maintenance)
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The oreo is made from 2 layers of 1/2" hard rubber, custom cut inside and out.
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The cream in the middle is 1.5" HDPE
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This leaves the centre line of the gypsy at 3.5" above the deck.
Thanks to all those lending advice on this forum. It has saved our bacon more than once.
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
Looking good Mike.
A trick I’ve always used to keep epoxy from being messy is to thicken it and load it in a plastic bag. Then you can place it exactly where you want it with no mess at all. Just think cake decorating.
I would strongly recommend epoxy for the sealant. It wouldn’t hurt (even with plywood) to cut back the core a little with a rebating bit in a router to give a good thickness to the epoxy seal. More important with balsa core but hey, why not?
Pix here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/f9ACWiCfWM6NW7kG6
Day 2: Alignment and hole drilling
Note: deck is 1.5" here with 1/4" fibreglass sandwiching 1"ply.
No delamination, no sponginess, all dry. Great hull construction.
Pre-installed the windlass to check bolt alignment. All good.
No issue with deck camber.
Advice sought: What’s the best sealant for the raw deck cut? Just silicone? Trying to avoid messy epoxy.
If the plywood in a 30+ year old deck is still dry it is a testament not only to the original builder, but also to everyone else who has maintained the boat since then. And if the plywood is to remain dry in the future it will require your high quality work as well. And that means epoxy. You’ll need to seal all of the exposed plywood - even in the holes you’ve drilled, including the mounting holes for the anchor roller, which it looks like you’ve already mounted - with epoxy. It isn’t really that big of a deal. I’ve sealed lots of plywood in drilled holes and I’m still alive and ticking. And it is a lot less work than re-coring the deck.
I would urge you to use a high solids epoxy (West System, System 3, etc.) not a penetrating epoxy. Penetrating epoxies are diluted with solvents, but tests have shown that the solvents separate from the epoxy and penetrate the wood, leaving what little epoxy might be in their mix sitting on the surface. It is best to use a slow curing hardener with a decent quality wood-laminating epoxy, thus allowing time for deep penetration.
If you don’t want the epoxy to dribble down into the boat, tape the underside and burnish the tape down to the underside of the deck so the epoxy won’t creep out under it. Use a couple of layers. With small holes you can just pour in a bit of epoxy to fill the hole and let it soak into the wood. A slow hardener will give you a few hours of working time (more if it’s cold). Every now and then top it up and stir the epoxy with a toothpick. When the epoxy starts to gel, or when you think no more is penetrating (level stops dropping) then you can soak up the rest with a twisted paper towel. The next day, when the epoxy is cured, remove the tape, re-drill the hole, and touch up the underside with a bit of sandpaper.
For the larger mounting hole, criss-cross a couple of layers of tape to the underside of the deck and burnish them down. Then use a soft, disposable chip-brush to coat and recoat and recoat the plywood until you sense that it is no longer soaking it up. In brushing it on, some will dribble onto the tape - that’s why it’s there - and you can just keep dabbing it back up and re-spreading so you don’t end up with a deep pool of it. When you’re done or it starts to gel, just soak up the remaining epoxy from the plywood and the tape and let it cure. When cured, you can remove the tape and touch up sand, but if you dabbed up your excess with the paper towel, you probably won’t need to do much to cleanup the mounting hole. It doesn’t have to be pretty because it will be covered by the winch. You’ll probably just need to file the edges of the cutout so they are sharp.
It sounds a lot trickier than it is. And someone else might have a different technique. Just make sure to use slow curing hardener and give the epoxy plenty of time to soak deeply into the plywood.
You’ll probably just need to file the edges of the cutout so they are sharp.
Oops, so they are NOT sharp.