3/8 reefing lines still recommended?

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We were experimenting with the reefing setup on my new-to-us NS26 Ultra. After running the 3/8" reefing line through the cringles and hauling up the sail, there seemed to be a significant increase in friction - yes the choker and was loose.

We then added small blocks to the cringles on the leech, which helped slightly, but I’m not keen on the idea of blocks flapping in the wind.

Looking for improvements, my existing reefing lines are old and stiff, so new, more supple lines would likely be beneficial. I’m also wondering if I should switch to a smaller diameter, low-stretch line. Has anyone tried 5/16" with something like Sta-Set? The 3/8" seems too bulky for the job.

Jeff

1986 Nonsuch 26 Ultra
Maine

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Digging deeper, I did find one person on this list using 5/16.

I’m wondering if the benefit of is worth the tradeoff to the feel-in-hand with the smaller diameter?

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Hi Jeff,

On Soave, I’ve been finding worn components ( blocks, clutches, deck organizers ) that introduce small amounts of friction that add up under load. I’ve been using Garhauer as a source to replace parts that are still functioning but starting to get stiff/worn and finding surprising reduction in effort required.

You may find a component ( or two) that your reefing line runs though that is adding friction under load. I was fooled a couple times while testing by not having enough load on the line while testing. Some deck organizers were not even turning, but the line was sliding anyway with low load.

I’ve also gotten into the habit of removing parts easily removed cleaning them at the end of the season and storing them off the boat during the winter. Parts I can’t remove get cleaned and lubed in place.

I suppose maintenance is always important, but on boats over 30 years old there always seems to be something needing some TLC or replacement.

In an earlier post I added a link to a company in Europe making a low friction insert for reefing grommets… that looked promising. Maybe Discourse AI can help locate it.

Smooth Sailing,

Rob….

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The smaller the line, the harder it is to grip. Particularly in heavy air.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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Do you raise the boom with the topping lift when you reef? My boat is obviously different than yours, but I understood that the reefing process was pretty similar for all models of Nonsuch. I’ve seen other references to blocks and low friction eyes and such, but if you adjust your reefing lines before they are under pressure, I don’t think you really need those things.

You don’t attach the tack or the clue of your sail while they are under tension. It wouldn’t work. The reefing lines are taking the place of the tack point on the mast and the clew point on the boom, so you don’t want to set them under tension, either.

On my boat, if you do not raise the boom then the leech reefing lines will go upwards at a steep angle for a couple of feet before going through the eye and angling steeply back down to the boom. That does make it very hard to pull the line by hand. You either just leave it like that or you have to crank really hard on a winch to raise the boom with the reefing line, which just seems like a recipe for breakage to me. If you raise the boom with the topping lift first, then you can haul in the reefing line by hand and don’t even need the winch. It is done while the line is not under tension. Then you ease the topping lift to let the clew reef point support the boom. The first time you might need to fuss with it a bit to get it perfect, but then you can mark the topping lift and you’ll know how far to ease it after you have set the reef.

Likewise the luff reefing line: if you ease the halyard as you are hauling on the reefing line you relieve the tension and can haul it by hand. When it is all the way down, you cleat it off and then put tension on the halyard. If you search this Discourse or the google group you’ll find advice and photos on how to rig the forward reefing lines. They were very handy for me.

(Reef the luff first, then the leech.)

If all tension is off of your reefing lines and they are still hard to pull, then you are right to look for sources of friction, but I suspect there is some other issue than just the stainless reefing eyes in the sail. I will admit that my lines did become easier to pull when I replaced my old and very worn lines with new ones. The new line was quite a bit more slippery. Like a LOT more slippery. I used Viper because it was on sale and I could get it once size smaller than spec for about the same price. But we were still able to reef fairly easily with the old line.

We rarely have to reef around here in San Diego, but I have done both of these lines myself and so has my regular “crew” of two people who are older than I am (one quite a bit older) and spent their lives at deskwork, so have little upper body strength.

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Interesting…

My 26C manual says 5/16 for the reefing lines. We swapped in 5/16 a few years ago. It is true they are smaller to grip, but they have worked well and run down the mast hangers much easier.

Curt Danforth

BENEFIT NS 26C #181

Mystic, CT

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I’m with Brian and Curt. I use 5/16” and it works fine. If your old lines are stiff, then they’re well worth replacing. Raising the boom to the aft reef cringle with the topping lift is much less work than trying to pull it up with the reefing line.

– Bob

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Has anybody tried using dyneema for the reefing pennants and splicing it into a standard rope on the deck? This should reduce friction while not compromising grip in heavy weather. My rig only requires a single reefing pennant per reef which I tend to set before leaving the mooring and raising the sail. Since the rig is well balanced, I have never needed to double reef yet. I do use a small block at the tack, but only use the cringle on the roach. Friction is not an issue, even at my age.
John Newell
Mascouche 26C #1
Toronto

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Every fall, I remove my running lines and wash them. It’s surprising how dirty the water becomes, and the lines stay relatively soft.

John Barbour
Nature 26 U
Toronto

1 Like
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Definitely you can go down one size with modern lines in all applications these days. I have blocks at the tack and they work well. But I not on the leech, not sure I want them flopping around and besides I have a larger leech. . Some folks are trying friction rings on the leech. I have used dyneema in a cam cleat but in a winch I think you’d need a cover.

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John,
Regarding your idea about splicing dyneema reefing pennants. Back when we were racing Flying Scots folks used to make ultra light spinnaker sheets with dyneema cored rope with polyester cover. They would strip the cover off the sail end of the sheet. For the transition you bury some of the cover in the core. ( Here ) is a video showing an example.

Same principle could apply for the reefing line, but I’m not sure I see the need for slippery reefing lines as clearly as other folks.

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT

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Rob’s comment about not seeing the need for dyneema got me to re-read the whole thread.

As Curt Danforth pointed out, 5/16” rather than 3/8” is what’s specified for N26 reef lines.

One other potential cause no one’s mentioned yet. As the reefing lines are run forward along the boom, they’re routed through the same eyes used to hold the sail jacklines. Depending on how those jacklines are fastened, they take up a little to a lot of the available space inside those eyes. If you have overly-thick reefing lines as well, the two will create friction against each other running through those eyes.

If you have an adjustable topping lift that’s been rigged to run forward, as well, then the space inside those eyes is doubly crowded because it’s got two lines running through it. The late Murray Cressman, I think, manufactured upgraded eyes with a bar separating the lines. Some boats have those. I suspect most don’t. Without them, the two lines can rub against each other.

So, in the worst case, you can have fat knots from the jacklines rubbing against two fat lines that are also rubbing against each other. If those lines are also old and stiff, you’ve got a perfect storm of friction.

Bottom line: use the specified 5/16” inch line, keep it clean and replace when stiff, follow Brian’s recommendations for reefing procedure. If that doesn’t solve it, take a look at whether the way your jack lines are attached to the guide eyes to make sure they’re not crowding the reef lines passing through.

I’d thought at one point of using dyneema to solve the problem on my boat, but it turned out to unnecessary once I looked at these other issues.

That said, high tech lines are fun, and it could be argued that consideration alone is sufficient reason to use them.

– Bob

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Try using a Dyneema soft shackle attached to the sail cringle and the reefing line through the soft shackle. Easier on the sail than a block.

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island