Hi,
Being out yesterday with 20knt wind and first reef. The bottom of the sail pup out of the sail track. I remember reading about some tension effect on the sail track when reefing and not able to find it back.
Could you advise me on this
Tanks
Jean Morissette
Third Base NS30C
Ste-Geneviève-de-Berthier
CBNIYC
Jean: It is important that you tension the halyard before you tension the clew when reefing. It takes the horizontal load off of the slugs which can cause them to pull out. Do you have the original metal track or a replacement plastic one?
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Jean,
I repeat the steps in my head and aloud to my crew each time we reef…
After lowering sail to the the desired reef point tighten… Tack, Halyard, Clew, Choker. Always in that order.
Maybe someone can think of a clever acronym… THCC isn’t very memorable. Maybe THC for Crew ?
Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT
Also… I am careful to ease the choker whenever doing anything that requires the sail slugs to slide up or down in the track. Maybe another way to think of it is don’t tighten the choker till you have tensioned the halyard. Halyard tension spreads the load evenly across all the sail slugs. Without halyard tension forces can get concentrated on a couple slugs and pull out of the track or worse ( pull the track away from the mast ). Stress appears in the bottom third of the sail on Soave if the choker is left too tight.
By “ease” I mean relieve high tension not release or go slack. On Soave this means 8"-12"… maybe 24" if the choker was super tight.
This is an automatic response burned into my brain from racing our Flying Scot with 10x purchase vang. Upwind “vang-on” would flatten the sail and move draft back… but if you eased the mainsheet with vang-on., you would likely bend or break your boom.
I am still pondering how much choker is right on Soave off-wind. Out of habit, if the choker is tight while beating I ease it about 6" when we fall off the wind. My thinking is I probably don’t need as flat a sail off wind and the slugs are pulling in the track sideways instead of straight back. I also get the feeling that as the wishbone moves outboard the choker tension increases because angles of the choker lines change ( increase ) to follow the wishbone.
Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT
Merci for these tips and advices,
Third Base has the plastic track in place and some cracks appeared lately on surface.
THC is easy to remember since I’m from the 50’s
And I do sail by myself often , last C will be a repeating process also easy at my age.
Take care sailors, the water is always attractive whenever the conditions
All the best
Jean
Third Base NS30C
Berthierville
CNBIYC
Envoyé de mon iPhone
This is all helpful to those of us still in the learning process about best sail handling practices.
But there seems to be one line missing: the topping lift.
I’m sailing, the sail is up, topping lift has been eased enough to no longer support the wishbone and now it’s time to reef.
Do we not first tension the topping lift?
Before/after we ease the choker?
Appreciate your thoughts.
Neil
NS30U, #488
Hey Neil
If setting a reef while underway, I have the engine on and in gear to hold the boat into the wind. With the sheet eased, I ease the choker, ease the halyard, set the tack, tighten the halyard, raise the boom with the topping lift, set the clew tension, release the topping lift, tighten the choker, set the sheet. The choker must be off to raise the boom with the topping lift. Without the choker off, raising the boom with the topping lift will be difficult if not possible and puts alot of unnecessary strain on the rig.
Ken Dakin
Hi Neil,
You are correct raising the wishbone “bringing in the topping lift” is a part of the modern reefing process. I believe it was introduced by Ed Botterell around the turn of the century. I found it interesting how different the early instructional videos ( HERE ) were from today’s best practices.
It is also true that your topping lift should be set to keep your wishbone at a safe height without any help from the sail. The only reason we have added topping lift to the reefing process is to make it easier to secure the luff of the sail. In the good old days the youngsters sailing Nonsuch boats ( in the videos ) didn’t even need to use winch handles to secure the clew when reefing.
Technically, after the choker is eased you could raise the wishbone via the topping lift. On Soave we wait till after the sail ( halyard ) has been lowered to reefing height, the tack ( inboard reef line ) is secured and the halyard has been retensioned.
On Soave, my intention has been to add some color coded marks to the topping lift for “normal”, “1st Reef”, “2nd reef”. I am careful to tell crew, if you feel the topping lift load up… STOP. Do not lift the wishbone if there is any resistance other than the weight if the wishbone. On Soave wishbone would be raised to the “reefing level” just prior to bringing in the aft reef line ( clew ). The aft reef lines and the topping lift share a common winch and are secured by rope clutches.
It might be a good practice to return the topping lift to the “normal” setting after the clew is secure so you can shake the reef without having to remember the topping reef. For this you definitely need marks on your topping lift to know where “normal” is. If the topping lift is eased too much wishbone will go boom on your head when you drop the sail.
I’m ashamed to say Soave’s topping lift is not yet marked and I guesstimate how much to raise the wishbone leaning toward a little more than necessary and then ease after the clew is where we want it. You can do a “pretty good” reef without raising the wishbone if your crew is strong, but raising the wishbone requires less strength and stress.
We practice in medium air… so the process always goes smooth. We haven’t had much opportunity to practice in heavy air… such is life on Long Island Sound in the summer.
Sail on,
Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT
Maybe the acronym needs to be THTCC … or maybe we don’t need an acronym
I posted this reminder list in my dodger to make it easier to remember all the steps when the wind raises the tension level.
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Neil:
Adjusting the topping lift beforehand certainly helps with reefing.
I’m going to timidly disagree with Paul Miller, who’s a very knowledgeable sailor. I believe that tightening the choker is the last step in raising the sail, and easing it is the first thing step in lowering it. (Ignoring the mainsheet, which of course is really what’s first and last.)
My mnemonic might be, “The last thing you want to do before starting to sail is to choke.”
When raising the sail, I believe in choker after TL because you want to adjust sail shape based on how the sail’s sitting while in use. If the TL isn’t where it’s supposed to be, it’s affecting sail shape and the sail’s not ready for use. When dropping, I suspect the order matters less. However, I’ve found that a very tightly choked sail interferes with raising the topping lift, and keeping the order consistent is easier to remember.
Jean: I think it’s kind of a good-news/bad-news story that you pulled the slugs out rather than the slugs pulling the sailtrack off the mast. It’s good because re-attaching the sail track is a bit more complicated.
The bad news is that, for anything to pull off the track, some things had to either deform or be the wrong shape already. The question is, did those things pop back into their correct shape or is there a problem with them that needs attention?
If the pop-out caused damage, or if there was already wear that played a role in it happening, then this problem can recur later – even if you do everything right in setting the sail.
It’d be a good idea to inspect your mast track in the area where the pop-out happened. Make sure that no material has been bent or worn away, and that its shape and thickness are uniform throughout. Similarly, are there any signs that the fittings on your sail have changed shape?
In case you weren’t already aware, your plastic track is most likely a Tides Marine Strong Track (Track & Slide Systems Archives - Tides Marine | Marine Industry Products). They have a projected life of 10-15 years, although many have gone much longer. That you mentioned cracking was what triggered my concern about damage or wear.
(By the way, do you really mean “slugs” or do you have slides? Slugs fit inside a slot in the sailtrack, slides wrap around edges outside the sailtrack. This matters if there’s a need to go into more detail about what to check, or if you need to order replacement parts.)
– Bob
Bob, my list is for reefing and is directly copied from “Bott’s Thoughts”. It works for me although I’m told (Mark P) that with the higher angle on the 26’s wishbone the topping lift is hard to raise without easing the choker.
When raising sail I always release the TL before any sail trimming with the choker.
That may explain it. Like Mark, I’m a N26 sailor and my opinions are based on those experiences. I can definitely attest to the choker interfering with the topping lift on a N26, and the different boom angle makes sense as the reason.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Botts Thoughts were based on N30s, since they were the earliest of the boats and greatly outnumber the others.
– Bob
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Thank you Bob. Appreciate the support of you and others who are working on our behalf to make the INA even better.
Cheers, Neil
Thanks Ken. Appreciate your help.
Cheers, Neil
Yes, thank you all for your insights.
I will get back when I have reef Third Base THCC 
Jean
Third Base NS30C
Ste-Genevieve-de-Berthier
Envoyé de mon iPhone
No one here has mentioned that the tack (bottom forward corner of the sail) must be as close to the mast as possible when reefed. If not then when the choker is tensioned it puts too much strain on the lowest slide which tends to pull the track (or the lowest slide) off the mast. The tack when reefed is the reefing eye in the sail.
To do this, the reef line must go up to the tack eye and down through the turning block on the same side of the sail.
If it goes up one side, over the sail and all the other track slides of the reefed sail, and then down to the turning block on the other side, then when to tighten it it won’t be near the mast and will put a lot of strain on the lower track slides and sail.
When the mast track or slides at the bottom of the mast are pulled out when reefed, this is usually the cause. If you don’t fix it it will keep happening.
Tom
Good point Tom. This is well described in Ed Botterell’s pamphlet “Bott’s Thoughts”.
Ron
Ron & Diane Schryver
“Alpha Waves” 1987 NS30U
Georgian Bay Midland ON
Tom,
Any chance you could attach a picture of how to rig the tack line on the same side of the sail? My tack setup goes from the cockpit thru the block up to the tack cringle then down the other side to the tie off loop. Do you mean it should go up thru the cringle then in front of the sail between the slides and back down the same side to the tie off loop. It’s a little hard to picture from my house. I will be on my boat tomorrow anod may have a better idea of what you are saying.
Brian Cayer
Spirit~Wind
N30U 419
Westbrook, CT
That is right Brian.
From the cockpit, turn up through the block at the mast, through the reef cringle, then immediately between the sail and the track so it goes back down on the same side it came up, then tie off to the mast ring.
On my boat the second reef is on the other side.
What ever you do the tack should be close to the mast when reefed. The point is to minimize the strain on the track and slides. Some people put a “dog bone” through the cringle so the line goes up and down one side without passing infront of the sail but I think this and a block at the clew cringle is unnecessary because these lines are pulled in when there is no strain on them. I have a mark on the lines when they are pulled in the right amount.
Yes the drawing in Bott’s manual shows it this way but my copy is on the boat.
Tom