Abridged summary of ina-nonsuch-discussion-group@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 1 topic

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Dear fellow Nonsuch sailers, I Like to replace the wishbone hanger lines with longer Dyneema lines and install 2 blocks on the mast fittings, where the steel hanger lines were mounted.
The new Dyneema hanger lines are then long enough to be secured at the mast collar - now I would be able to lower the wishbone anytime.
Any thoughts/advice/critiques are welcome and appreciated.
Thanks

Ed Shreiber
NS22 #39
Pangur
Lunenburg NS
Canada

2

Ed,

That sounds like a great idea! It would of course save a lot of effort at decommissioning and commissioning. Please post photos if the invention is accomplished. I wonder if soft shackles tied into the lines at the proper height of attachment would simplify it further.

Brian Cayer
Spirit~Wind
N30U 419
Westbrook, CT

3

Hi Ed,
I’m not a professional rigger, but I work to understand the general principles behind rig designs and modifications that I see on my boat and boats that I see in my travels.

There are safety, longevity, and performance tradeoffs behind the choices we make in both running vs standing rigging.

As I understand your proposal, you would convert your wishbone hanger cables from standing to running rigging to make it easier to lower your wishbone for inspection and service.

For Soave, I would not make this modification for the following reasons.

  1. Human error. The lines will be accessible to anyone on your boat. I would worry that a well intentioned crew on my boat might adjust ( or release ) the hanger line thinking it was something else. This is why our topping lift has a safety line to limit the travel of the running portion of the topping lift.
  2. Risk. Moving from standing to running rigging for hanger lines introduces more points of failure. Blocks, shackes, screws, bolts, nuts all introduce tiny risks to a design. When added up, this risk( running rig for hanger lines) is one that I will avoid.
  3. Complexity. The wishbone an important part of Soave’s sail plan. Choker, mainsheet, sail ( indirectly halyard, downhaul, and reef lines ) work on and with the wishbone to influence sail shape. Our Nonsuch boats ( original design ) have fixed hanger cables. I would fear adjustable hanger lines would add complexity, that would confuse me and my crew. I like the simplicity of fixed hanger wires.
  4. Other options. The ride in a bosun’s chair chair to the wishbone is pretty tame… masthead is a bigger challenge. I’ve seen others use a ladder. Soave has hardware for a flag halyard that is normally loaded with 1/4" line. The cheek block is sized for 3/8" or 7/16" and strong enough for either a person or support of the wishbone. I use the 1/4" to pull heavier line for this kind of work that requires two lift lines. Some boats have a second halyard. For twice a year service and inspection… I’m working ways to make this easier. Your suggestion caught my eye, because you are working on the same challenge.
    The above is just my thinking ( for my boat ). Sharing my thoughts… this is a challenge that I’ve encountered and continue to look for ways to improve.

There is a recurring theme I’ve also been encountering… as I age things I used to do for myself get harder to do. My first inclination is to look for mechanical solutions, but I’m finding better luck using social solutions. I’m slowly learning how to invest some of my time and money to build social connections to form a community around Soave. In some ways the INA and our various user groups are helping.

Let us know what you choose.

Smooth sailing.

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT

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  1. Human error. If the lines are cleated off at the mast and the rest of the control lines are operated from the cockpit, then it’s unlikely anyone will accidentally release them. But if it did happen it would be extremely bad. You could tie a padlock to the cleated off line. It wouldn’t actually secure anything, but would certainly call attention to the fact that you want those lines locked down. Then anyone who released them would be a candidate for the Darwin award. Or there might actually be a practical/nautical way to lock them down. It’s worth thinking about.
  2. Risk. Yes, more parts = more risk of failure. You would want to use good quality hardware. But this also reduces risk for some less agile people (like me!) who really have no place going up there to release the boom every fall and raise it back up every spring. (Which I don’t.)
  3. Complexity. Interestingly, the ability to adjust the height of the forward end of the boom would probably give more options to adjust sail shape for a hard-core racer. :slight_smile: But that would require bringing the lines back into the cockpit and then you’d probably want safety lines which are the same as the current standing lines, which would defeat the original purpose.
  4. Other. I’m a sea level kind-of-a-guy. You’re not getting me up there in a bosun’s chair, even to wishbone height. Too fat and too clumsy. I hire a rigger for this kind of thing.
  5. Tradition. Most larger old wooden sailboats and ships had/have booms and even upper portions of their masts (topmasts) which can be raised and lowered as necessary. So converting the boom hangers from standing to running rigging would be a very traditional move.
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Goot points Brian.

To clarify, I wasn’t advocating that folks who are uncertain of their fitness to ascend the mast to do so. I was questioning if the lines to drop the wishbone make the job more doable for them. This spring I attempted to move Soave’s wishbone on her deck by myself and found that requires more strength and agility than working aloft. Let’s say it was awkward boarding on dangerous.

I also like your comment about tradition which is also something that is important to me. I’m currently reading Grayson’s biography of Joshua Slocum and soaking up all the tradition and changes he dealt with in his career. My choice of Soave runs counter to my interest in tradition… I’ll need to ponder that.

I like that that sailors ( even Slocum ) understood the value of many perspectives. His first wife Virgina is credited ( by him ) as helping him achieve many of the things he did in his early career as a captain.

Sail on…

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT

6

I wonder about how many blocks you would need to be able to safely, without undue physical strain, raise or lower the boom. The boom on a 22 may be manageable with only one block at the mast collar, but I suspect that on our 30, I would need at least a single block with becket at the top and a single block at the bottom. Maybe double blocks. Misjudge it and the boom comes down awfully fast, probably landing with a “boom”. Hopefully not on anyone.

Suspect you will need three people to do the task - one for each hanger line and one for the topping lift. The people at the mast will not have winches to ease their task of hauling it up.

You would need two new spots on the mast collar to attach the lower blocks and then a spot to tie it off and “lock” it.

How do you handle chafe - the lines will be running through the boom so any time you are beating, the boom is going to be laying against the lines.

How critical is having the boom level? How hard will it be to get it level with an adjustable system?

Racing - not sure if this system would be considered class legal. I just read the portion of the rules on Spars and Rigging and the hangers are not discussed. Masts and wishbones may not be altered, nor can you do anything that makes a boat different from the description in the rules. (See Register, page 71.) I would argue that the system should be allowed if the boom was maintained by the system at the height specified by the factory with standard hangers. Adjusting them for an advantage would appear to violate the spirit of a one-design vessel.

Just some thoughts.

lloyd herman
Rendezvous, 30U
Port Washington, NY