On our 30U there are two Atkin Hoyle XR 90 hatches. The one was new in 2018 and the other reconditioned at that time and converted to a “friction” hinge. I evidentially did not get enough oil into the hinge bolts that press everything together and make it a friction hinge and the bolts have seized. While the one hatch still opens and functions, I cannot oil it anymore. On the other, one bolt has broken in one hinge and for the other hinge the cast aluminum itself is breaking. While I have pulled the hatch out to try and repair it, I am not optimistic.
I have no interest in spending about $700 US replacing the hatch with another poorly designed Atkin Hoyle hatch - the hinges should be made a bit bigger and a nylon insert put over the bolt so as to minimize the chance of seizing. Does anyone know of a different brand hatch that fits the XR 90’s opening? 15 9/16" x 9 1.2" (or, in metric - 395 mm x 241 mm)?
If I cannot find a replacement hatch or fix mine, I may just bed/screw a fixed piece of smoked plexi over the opening (in the head) and insert a solar vent into it.
There is an outfit called Hammerhead, around Toronto. It is staffed by former (and maybe even disgruntled) Atkins and Hoyle folks. If they are still in business (I hope), they are way cheaper and do true Nonsuch replacements.
Hi LLoyd,
‘Hatchmasters’ in E Norwalk , Ct. specializes in hatch repairs, etc. I had all of my hatches redone and a new main hatch sliding piece made this past winter. I’m going there this Friday to pick them all up and re-install. If we can connect and you’d like, I can take yours with and see what they say. Best, Gary
NS 30329 , Aloki
On Saturday, March 4, 2023 at 1:26:21 PM UTC-5 Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous wrote:
thanks for the thoughts/suggestions. I had checked on Hammerhead before I posted - they appear to only recondition hatches that essentially work but need new glass and seals. I also did not want to get involved in shipping the hatch to Canada.
I am following up with Gary off list (our boats are in the same yard) and will see if Hatchmasters can assist. If not, I will explore Thor’s machine shop suggestion.
I wrote to Atkin Hoyle and only got a “sorry for your troubles” e-mail. No real apparent interest in resolving my problem. I find the disinterest to be interesting.
I don’t want to be sued by A & H but their “disinterest” as you put it (and very mildly, I may add) is truly legendary in the marine equipment world. They only seem to show a trace of interest when they are certain of a sale. Their stuff is priced punishingly high. It’s disgraceful and seriously painful. It’s a Canadian company and, to some of us Canucks, it’s an embarrassment. There are many comments written, on this board, (and many others, I’m sure) from sailors who have been fleeced big-time by this outfit. A & H operates as if it’s the only game in town. Sadly, those of us with Hinterhoeller boats are somewhat stuck when it comes to repairs or exact-fit replacements.
Fortunately, as time goes by, other solutions surface. Still …
Ernie A. in Toronto
On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 1:29:45 PM UTC-5 Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous wrote:
So, after I vented here, I reached back out to A & H to see what they would recommend to try and fix my hatch. I learned that the bolts for the “friction” hinges are installed with blue Locktite on the threaded portion of the hinge (which is on the base portion of the hatch). To free them up, you need to use lots of heat - red hot type heat. In theory, my one hatch is still perfectly fine. The broken one I dealt with as follows:
I cut the one bolt that was still functioning to separate the two halves of the hatch (I doubted my ability to apply red-hot heat with a plastic lens right next to the hinge).
I then got out the butane micro torch (which A & H recommended) and found it insufficient for the task. I got out the bigger Benzomatic propane torch and got the bolts red hot, grabbed them with a Visegrips, and budged nothing.
I then took Thor’s suggestion and Googled machine shops. I found an engine rebuild shop listed that was walking distance from my house. Walked it in, was told they would either remove the bolt stubs or destroy the base plate. An hour later I walked back down, gave them $92 and had my base plate back with the bolt stubs out and freshly tapped threads. It was clear that they heated up more than just the bolts - the aluminum tabs that form half of the hinge are discolored from heat. I learned that if I ever want to rebuild my diesel engine, they will be more than happy to do it. Doubt I would walk down to get that done - maybe in a wheel barrel (it is down hill).
The hatch is back together, but I need to get different bolts for it - I need 1/4" x 10 without a shoulder, which the hardware store did not have. I am confident that I will find such either at West Marine or at the Safe Harbor yard where the boat is.
Now just need some warm weather to install the hatch.
Heat makes things expand. Heating the bolt would make it tighter in the hole. Heating the base would make the hole bigger and the bolt looser. You can even spray the bolt with freeze spray to exaggerate the difference.
Please video it when you take your engine down the hill in the wheel barrow.
I suspect they they did not use blue lock tite as it can easily be broken free. The red stiff needs a heat gun and force of about 50 foot lbs. What I suspect is having not used any galvanic seal the stainless and AL simply fused. In that case impact tools and praying works sometimes. Metal fears being taken to the machine shop so it often behaves there …
On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 8:44:42 AM UTC-7 Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous wrote:
I feel your pain, having spent beaucoup bucks over the years on tools, lubricants, and heating and freezing devices with a resultant .001 batting average on stuck bolt removal. If, however, you ever need someone to shear off a bolt or strip its slots, I’m your man. This is perhaps due to a temperamental preference for brute force over delicacy or guile.
What little I know about the topic comes from boltdepot.com, which may also be a source for the bolts you need. I like them also because they provide detailed information about their products, down to the level of what size wrench you need for a given size hex bolt.
I’m curious about the replacement bolts you mentioned (1/4" x 10 without a shoulder). If I understand what you mean, I think this is also sometimes called a tap bolt. As near as I can tell, a tap bolt is just a machine screw with a hex head instead of a slotted screw.
Usually, I think, 1/4" tap bolts or machine screws come with 20 threads per inch; why did the machine shop tap a 10 thread per inch hole? My impression is that you have to go up to a 3/4" bolt to get 10 threads per inch. Alternatively, #10 bolts and screws (3/16" diameter) come in either 24 or 32 threads per inch.
Or am I misunderstanding what you need? If I’m not, I’m wondering if you’ll have to have them made up special (but also why your machine shop put you in the position of needing to).
First - the bolt was a 1/4" x 20, not 10. I have replaced the two with shoulders with two without and the hinges work better.
Second - I reviewed the e-mails from AH and they did not specify which color Locktite. They clearly said I would need heat to break the bond, so I guess it was red.
Other thought - the stubs of the bolts when they came out were free of corrosion, so it was just the Locktite that I was battling. The machine shop pros were a lot less hesitant when it came to applying heat then I was. Live and learn.
No present plans to take the engine down the hill for a rebuild. If I do such in a wheelbarrow, I will definitely video it.
Taking the engine down the hill for a rebuild in a wheelbarrow would be no problem 'til you get to the bottom. (I recommend music from Benny Hill for the video’s soundtrack.)
If you can get it back up the hill in a wheelbarrow, well, then, “You’re a better man than I, Gunga Din,” and that would be another video to film.
Glad it turned out relatively simple.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 11:01:24 AM UTC-7 Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous wrote:
Has anyone researched replacement hatches that will fit the four overhead openings for a Nonsuch 36? I would gladly replace one Atkins and Hoyle hatcher per year if there were reasonable alternatives from Lewmar, Bowman, or anyone else.
Here is the Lewmar info. I am sure other suppliers can supply the specs. My guess is yes for the hatches and most likely for the ports. You may need to remove the outer ring on the ports to confirm the opening as I’ve seem some odd workmanship hiding behind those flanges.
