Can someone tell me the locations and specs of the keel bolts and if it possible to buy a very long extension rod to turn sockets?
I did a keel-bolt inspection and refresh on Soave ( NS33 ) last winter. ( HERE ) is a Google Album that I used to document the process.
The surprises I encountered were :
- The nuts are not standard, they are “heavy” meaning given the bolt size you’ll need a larger socket. I measured the bolt diameter and ordered standard replacement nuts, so had to reorder. It is possible a PO might have been tempted ( as I was ) to just use standard nuts, but I think you need heavy nuts to handle the specified torque AND to provide more robust resistant to corrosion.
- The bolts were under Soave’s waste tank. It’s a pain to remove.
- A 40" breaker bar and a separate electric torque meter made getting the proper torque easier. It’s tight quarters but having the leverage is handy.
Good Luck,
Rob…
Hi - I don’t have the size specs, but a couple are located below the holding tank. You would need to remove that to get to them. You would also need a very long extension, probably 3’ long, to get to the lowest ones. I don’t know if they use an impact wrench to tighten them, but I’d assume a pretty significant lever to be able to be able to tighten them too. After they are tightened, they put paint marks on them so you can see if they’ve loosened up at all. Hope this helps.
It does. Thank you. Do you know the total number?
Soave ( NS33 ) has 5- 1" and 2- 3/4" … below is from my invoice… source was Bolt Depot.
Thank you again.
There are cables leading forward that make removal tricky. I could make situation worse if I damage the cables.
Do you think it is possible to either slice up the holding tank in place or slide it out sideways?
I removed Soave’s myself, but found it very awkward. Soave is a NS33 your 36 may be different.
My recollection is that the tank hose connections are forward. After disconnecting the tank I lifted it from the front and slid it forward till it could stand on end with aft down and forward up. If there is enough slack in the cable to clear the aft corner of the tank, it probably would come out like mine. My guess is rerouting the cable would be easier than cutting the tank to remove it.
On Soave, I’m finding clever maintenance accommodations left by POs. You may find the cables were routed, then coiled some place that isn’t visible to provide slack for tank removal.
Good Luck… I try to do most work myself, but hiring a pro does have advantages.
Rob…
Rob, Thank you very much. On mine the the hoses are front and back, but that is not a problem I think. The wires will have to be disconnected. Doable in theory at least.
There are two newer looking narrow timbers ( 1" x 4" roughly) port-to-starboard that would need to be removed. The holding tank is huge, but if I can deal with the wires and t is possible to remove or cut the boards I might be able to lift the tank out. I have the feeling the prior owner removed a smaller tank and replaced it with the present one.
Thanks again.
Richard
Interesting… Soave’s waste tank was sandwiched between stringers, and had forward/aft joists dovetailed into the stringers. It was tight fitting Soave’s tank out the companionway. If your tank is larger than the standard, you might present a similar challenge. Just curious, are you keeping the tank ? If so, check the flanges for corrosion. Soave’s tank flanges were shot.
Rob…
I can get it off the boat I bet because the door is wide, but the boat lives outside the US (in the Bahamas) so I am not likely to find a buyer. Not a bad idea to try.
I have a different question now. What I believe will work best for removing nuts would be a vertical bar with some kind of Tee-shaped handle (a cross basically). Is there such a thing?
Richard,
My old waste tank is retired in my garage. The tank is good but the lower flange needs to be replaced due to corrosion. An experienced welder ( which I am not) could handle the job. Soave has a composting toilet which serves our needs well.
Peter on Irish Mist ( also a NS33 ) has a tool similar to what you describe that a PO built specifically for this purpose. Makes me wish I had more advanced welding skills, but at 65 it’s unlikely I’ll find the time to develop them. I took some welding classes, but could clearly see value years of experience adds when comparing my welds to our instructor.
The approach I took on Soave was to use some scraps of wood to brace the the socket extension on the fore/aft joists ( see previously posted photo) when breaking the nuts loose or torquing them down. I bought a set of 3/4" extensions and borrowed a 10" extension from the guy I borrowed the 40" breaker bar from. I had the sockets from working on my tractor, but had to buy a deep socket for one of the keel bolts .
The joists are pretty light weight, so make sure the block has a large enough bearing surface to distribute the load.
Removal of the nuts was easy with a 24" ratchet handle and a little penetrating oil. Thanks to a PO that used dielectric grease to protect the bolts from corrosion. The boat next to me had a devil of a time doing the same job because their nuts were fused to the bolts.
The 40" breaker bar I borrowed had plenty of leverage for torque the nuts down… and probably enough to break the joist if the load wasn’t adequately distributed. I found the torquing down to be the hardest part of the job. Don’t forget the dielectric grease to protect against corrosion.
I was lucky to either have or be able to borrow most of the tools required. If I was starting from scratch and had to buy the tools, it probably would have been less expensive to pay the yard the $185/hr to do the job.
Good Luck,
Rob…
Just curious, maybe I missed it, but why do you want to get at your keel bolt nuts? Is this so you can drop the keel?
Don
Hello. I grounded the boat a there is a slow leak. Maybe two quarts per day. People suggested to m le that I should tighten the nuts
People who actually know what they are talking about? The nuts attach the keel to the boat, they don’t seal the joint. If you’ve broken the seal, I’m not sure tightening the nuts will accomplish anything but draining your patience and bank account. It might compress the sealant and give you some temporary relief, but probably not permanent.
Thank you for the advice
Don,
In Soave’s case, I observed a crack along the keel joint ( no leak ). The advice I got was to inspect and re-torque the keel nuts before doing any work on the keel joint. Also I was unable to verify the last time the keel bolts had been inspected. 5 years ( to me) seems to to be the right interval for keel bolt inspection.
As others have said, ask three sailors… get 4 perspectives.
Rob…
Hi,
Depending on your speed at the time and what you hit, typical damage can included loosing a chunk of lead from the bottom leading edge of the keel. But more importantly, damage can done to the fiberglass hull keel stub area. The impact compresses the fiberglass at the aft end above the keel, while at the same time pulling down the fiberglass at the opposite forward end above the leading edge of the keel. This should really be examined out of the water, and may be a significant repair. Insurance will likely cover it. If the boat is still in the water, I doubt you’ll be able to get much out of tightening the keel bolts. This is usually done when the boat is out of the water and resting on the keel.
Don
It is all helpful. I appreciate all comments.
RW
Phone,
If you are ready for the fourth opinion I have looked into this problem when I was considering buying a N30C. At survey it was descovered the keel was loose. We could actually rock it a bit while it was in the straps and off the ground at haul out. I suspected as much because like you the bilge would refill to pump height in a couple days after completely drying it out. The problem with trying to stop the flow by tightening the nuts is that salt water that is slowly seeping to the bilge will loose its oxygen and corrode the SS bolts holding the keel on. If you decide to tighten the nuts it would not hurt anything and you will have exposed the nuts to be able to drop and re-bed with 5200. This will nessesarly involve a boatyards assistance. It is a common fix and is recommended.
Sorry for your troubles.
God be with you.
Brian
This is very interesting. I didi not know about the oxygen issue. The keel is not loose. Would it make sense
To pump out the water several times a day?
RW