Nice weather today so I decided to pull a window trim ring off and do some caulking replacement. I couldn’t believe what I found, in fact I can’t figure how it ever kept water out.
These windows will seal perfectly if the window flange is bedded against the outside of the cabin side (not very practical) or the inside of a solid cabin side, however it is virtually impossible to properly seal them when there is a gap between the cabin side and a liner.
I took the window right out and it was clear that there was never an attempt to fill the gap between the skins (in my opinion the only way to prevent leaks in this installation). Filling it with epoxy would essentially make a solid skin and filling it with a flexible caulk like polysulfide or polyurethane would be just as good but neither had been attempted.
It’s an easy fix now with the window out. I can shoot some polyurethane caulk into the gap, replace the window, and add more caulk in the gap around the spigot.
The original caulking under the window flange on the inside of the liner and the massive amount of caulk gluing the trim ring down don’t really prevent leaking at all if the gap isn’t filled.
What seems to have kept the water out as long as it did was a thin seam of squeeze out that made a fragile seal between the trim ring and the spigot.
The nice thing about discovering this and repairing it is that I will be able to replace the trim rings with fastenings only, no caulking. Then they can be popped off any time I need to clean or polish the cabin side.
Sorry for the rant but this seems to be the result of a complete lack of understanding of how portlights work.
I thought is was a result of an understanding of the laws of economics more than a lack of understanding portlights. Save some labour and some caulk. It would leak for many years so we are good to go. A 30 Nonsuch was the same size and sold for the same price as other manufacturer’s 34 footers making them a tough sell Adding to the price was not going to help. I was going to say it happened on Sandpiper because George was not around to supervise on the day and the crew were dreaming about warmer weather, however if that is the case the same thing happened on La Reina since the gap on her was completely empty as well.
When I worked on the portlights on La Reina I thought about making up a spacer to go between the cabin top and the liner but then decided to shoot caulk into the gap. I am glad to hear I came up with a solution approved by a trained shipwright.
You have had your rant for the day so can’t use another until tomorrow. If you are over 70 you are allowed two rants in the day as long as one is in the morning and the other in the afternoon.
I think George was occupied supervising the excellent layups of the glass parts. As I want to think well of him I will assume that window installation, wiring, plumbing, and other atrocities were delegated to someone else.
I was flabbergasted to find the same thing on my 1987 NS30U Quickbeam. Link below to my sealing procedure (not re-sealing, because it was never sealed to begin with). I was chasing a leak that lead me to the ports and couldn’t believe the complete lack of sealant between the ports and the hull. Laughing that the trim ring was sealed to the hull, which does nothing. The one shot of the interior through the exterior of the boat at the gap was the A-Ha moment. I’m surprised it wasn’t worse.
Looks good Bob. The only thing I’m doing extra is to remove the window to get better access to filling the gap between the skins. I’m sure yours is good too.
Certainly better than new!
On a recent check of the boat I too found a leak on the port side forward bunk in the corner where the grab molding meets the bulkhead. After reading about the issue concerning the lack of sealant between around the hatch and the liner here will have saved me a lot of investigative work. Hats off to those who came across this issue and came up with a solution.
Hi all.
This is my first post. I am a new Owner of NS33 #15 Skylark IX, in Kingston, Ontario. I have been lurking and learning a lot from this forum the past few months, absorbing everything I can. We have had her in a shop in Bath, ON all winter preparing for painting of topsides, deck and cabin-top. My wife and I have removed all deck hardware except the stanchions, which are next. You learn a lot about a boat by dismantling it. I too was surprised by installation of these port-lights, which helped to explain the evidence of past leaks. I have attached photos of ours removed. After reading these discussions, I plan to fill the void between the skins with sealant, after first friction-fitting a compressible backer rod to prevent sealant loss into the cavity and to help create a solid bond. When I later reinstall the lights, I will fill around the spigot (new word for me in this context), before reinstalling the trim. Thanks everyone for the wonderful insight provided here. So much to learn.
That is exactly how mine looked except they managed to get yours in the middle of the cutout. The one over my galley was all the way to one side of the cutout, leaving a 3/4” gap on one side of the spigot and almost nothing on the other.
One thing that bugged me was the lack of sealing to keep water out of the space between the liners. Countersunk holes on inside, not on the outside.
So, when mine went back in last spring, lots of caulking to seal and give support between the layers, and caulking around the trim ring, especially in the countersinks I put in in the outer layer. The trim ring is well sealed, as is the space between the frame and the liners.
The bow port had no sealant, and the cutout was almost trim-ring size. No wonder water was coming in from somewhere.
My ports were Beckson; replaced lenses, bug screens, and gaskets. Some ports fell out when unscrewed (bow, and the 2 in the cockpit) starboard 2 were “ok” to remove (had to push a little bit), the port 2 had 4 different types of sealant thanks to previous owners, and were a bit tough to remove!
I followed a youtube video by Wayne Canning. Worth watching; you may agree or disagree, but knowledge is king.
John Stewart, NS26C “ex. leaky windows” #046, Bath ON.
