We’re going to be reinstalling cabin top hardware very soon on Felix #27, specifically the hardware for sail handling. I’d like some opinions on my thinking…
I’ve eliminated all the cleats and opted for clutches - three on the port side (Halyard and 2 reefs) and 4 on the starboard side (Choker, 2 reefs and the topping lift) - note they’re just reversed in the photo while I was figuring things out. Previously, there were 2 winches on each side. Do I need that many? Is there ever a time when I’ll need two winches on one side loaded up? I hate clutter. If anyone has a similar setup and photos, please send them my way! Thanks all.
Clutches, winches and cleats.
Lions and tigers and bears.
I would leave them all. It can’t hurt anything and you may need it. I love labor, saving devices, and the cleats are a good place to hang the lines if nothing else. Are they self tailing witches?
On Allegro I re did the clutch deck arrangement first thing. On the port side is a triple spinloc clutch that handles the first reef and the Cunningham. Right beside that is a bigger clutch for the main halyard. All this leads to a big self tailing winch. On the starboard side is two double clutches. One is for the second reef and the other is for the topping lift and the out haul (chocker). These lead to a small non self tailer that never gets used. I wouldn’t change a thing.
After 30 different boats I’ve learned that simple is best. Redundant gear like multiple cleats or winches are just in the way of getting the job done. Rig it simply, maintain the hardware and it will be there for you.
I’m not familiar with the layout on a 30U. So this may not pertain.
I sail shorthanded on Soave ( a 33 ) that has a large powered winch on the port side within easy reach from the helm. The main halyard is led back to this winch which is used for mainsheet and halyard. Other 33’s sometimes utilize a cabin top winches for the halyard… which is fine unless a dodger is added which obscures visibility of the sail ( like mine). The person hoisting the sail needs an unobstructed view especially if power assist is used. When single handing this winch makes life MUCH easier and it eliminates the need for a winch on the port cabin top.
One self-tailing winch on the starboard cabin top works well, when underway the choker clutch is usually open and choker is left loaded on the winch to make it easy to adjust.
I agree with the move to rope clutches but I’ve noticed they are kinda hard on the cordage. Maybe plan for end-2-end reversals to increase longevity.
Also the original deck organizers are obsolete… the cool kids are using deck organizers with low friction rings instead these days. These have the added benefit of not being sensitive to the angle of the lines coming off the turning blocks on the mast collar. (long story but a tricky compromise on the 33 ) Soaves deck organizers have sheaves that are approaching EOL so I’m in the market for new ones that have the same screw pattern.
Rob: Can you send a pic of how your main halyard is run? I always singlehand and find running to the cabin top to lift my main quite the solo task with nobody at the helm.
I’m a fan of this setup… I’m going to the Rendezvous where there will be plenty of other boats to see. If I see a similar setup on a 30C I’ll snap a few shots for you.
Rob, my 30U has the exact same setup on port combing except there is only a cleat where you have a clutch between the turning block and the winch. The port combing has the larger radius to seat the electric winch which leads me to believe this was a factory build. The port and starboard cabin top are the same also.
Brian,
Yea, about that clutch. As a dinghy sailor, it feels weird to ever cleat the mainsheet. But I’ll admit to using it on occasion while sailing. In theory you shouldn’t be adjusting the halyard while there is any tension on the sheet… in practice we sometimes do.
It’s mostly used while at the dock. Once the sail is down I use short length of rope to secure the wishbone to the starboard side and then snug the mainsheet. with the wishbone to starboard it’s easier to secure the sailcover.
Looking forward to seeing how other Nonsuch boats are rigged at the Rendezvous.
There are a lot of different ways to rig the boats, and it can take some experimentation to find the one that works for you.
I always like to know a person’s background before offering my suggestions. With a boat, there are very few best answers. It’s always about trade-offs. How concerned are you about resale value? Are you planning to still be sailing the boat when you age? What’s your budget? How much, and what kind, of maintenance do you like to do? Etc., etc…
That said, here are my prejudices:
It’s not clutter unless it’s seriously in your way. You may discover a need when you age. At 71, I use the starboard cabintop winch to adjust the topping lift and choker. At 61, I had no idea what it was doing taking up cabintop space. You may also discover a use that didn’t initially occur to you. I’ve been sailing 54 years and am still learning things. If you enjoy patching holes in your deck nicely, I admire you but I don’t want to be you.
Ain’t nothing wrong with redundancy. Until Murphy’s Law is repealed, at some point something will break just when you need it. Always nice to have backup hardware.
Winches deserve maintenance. How many you want depends on how willing you are to take care of them vs. the hassle and spaghetti of routing too many lines to one particular spot.
Rope clutches in front of your winches are your friend. I’ve never met a winch wrap that made me regret having a rope clutch. If you worry about rope wear, you can make a habit of loading the winch and opening the clutch before adjusting. That said, the more lines and clutches leading to a winch, the harder it is to ensure a fair lead to that winch.
Given the loads, if you feel a need often to tighten the halyard, consider adding a cunningham instead. That’s just IMHO. But if you’re a tweaker, that means you’re performance-oriented. If you ease the choker and main to adjust the main, you’re losing time and speed. If you don’t, you’re fighting friction and likely bending the mast in ways that don’t help sail shape. All avoided by pulling at the bottom instead of the top.
Cleats are always good for stowing lines. If you’re traditional, they’re fine for running rigging. If you have to re-route a line temporarily, they’re often in a convenient place to soft-shackle a turning block. If you like convenience and speed, rope clutches are your friend. Either way, though, a cleat’s existence rarely hurts anything. Except toes, which is why scientists invented shoes.
If you singlehand and can afford it, an autopilot is an even better friend than a rope clutch. Even if everything’s led to be reachable from the wheel, there will always come a time when you need two hands for linehandling and a third for the wheel (see winch wraps).
Again, this all comes back to what trade-offs matter to you. I’m prioritizing convenience and safety. My opinions are almost all at odds with one or another of the things someone above suggested. I’m right for me. They’re right for them.
