I received my replacement rudder for my N26C. I have two options for the replacement:
Replacing the rudder while the boat is in the water seems like a better option both time-wise and cost-wise.
Does anyone have any suggestions or experiences to share?
Thanks,
Siva Surendira
‘Inner Peace’ NS26C
Jersey City, NJ
Surendira: I assume you have a contractor willing to do this??
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Hi Surendira,
You are making great progress and saved a bundle so far on the used rudder.
Boat work is surprisingly difficult ( for me ) to estimate. On Soave new tasks seem to materialize out of thin air anytime I start any job. I replaced the shifter cable and ended up finding dry crusted needle bearings supporting the steering shaft in my pedestal.
Have you removed the damaged rudder ? Doing that in the water gives you a good idea of what’s involved to work in the water and also provides opportunity for close inspection of the rudder tube and bearings. I’ll bet just getting the old one out is close to 2 hours work.
As presented, it sounds like a potential savings of $1800. Assuming the same outcome… I’d be skeptical, because the in-water replacement is more difficult and leaves little room for dealing with unexpected discoveries. I hear folks say “good enough for now” when working in the water ( on a fixed price ). With the boat on the hard… if the rudder isn’t running smooth, you pull it and figure out why.
Best of luck with the approach you choose. Please let us know what approach you use and what you find during the replacement. These are tough boats ! I was surprised by the pictures you shared that only the shaft bent.
Rob Cohen
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Westport, CT
Sorry …
You are replacing a critical element of the boat with a 40-year-old part (and that’s the truth). You want this done in a calm sensible methodical manner, in a way that you can catch any issues before it’s too late. It looks like you’ve already saved a bundle on a new or re-built rudder. Cut your losses and be safe.
This is a job that should not be done “in water” unless you have no choice. I cannot fathom how they quoted you $200.00 when, on top of everything else, you need a diver to assist in this project.
“Good enough for now” is not good enough for any decent boat.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Siva -
It may be tempting to go the cheaper route, but the fact that you are asking the question means you probably already know the right answer. I had a client tell me once that “I can’t afford to do it cheap” - meaning that inevitably, doing it the ‘right’ way would seem more expensive but in the end would actually cost less (time value of money).
In this case, consider this an opportunity to do a few things. 1) Have you had the boat out of the water to check the condition of the bottom? It would be an ideal time to check the prop, cutlass bearings, strut, sacrificial anode, etc. Maybe it’s a good time to check the condition of all the through-hulls and valves. Perhaps the hull could use a polish? Just saying, if you’re pulling the boat to repair damage from an unfortunate accident, pile on some other tasks and take advantage of the situation.
My $0.02.
Bob Gehrman
NS30U #396 “Quickbeam”
Baltimore, Maryland
I took some friends out sailing on Tuesday and they bought me dinner afterwards at a casual restaurant next to a marina. Two fairly ordinary salads, one chicken sandwich w/fries, and some wine came to $122 plus the 20% tip. I cannot get a rigger to even show up for less than $400. Granted, these are San Diego prices, but here in 2024 I find it hard to believe than you can get anything done to your boat in anything like a quality fashion for $200.
It seems likely that they will be working frantically fast to get it done and not really paying attention to getting it right.
What will they be leaving for you to do that the yard would do for the $2000?
Hi Everyone,
Thank you for your input. I carefully read all your comments and would like to address a few points here.
It’s more about the time the marina staff will take compared to the cost. With SailGP happening on June 23, there might be an extended period the boat will be in the water.
Therefore, I was keen to know if anyone has done this before for a Nonsuch. Is it even possible given Nonsuch boats have one of the heaviest rudders?
Thanks,
Siva Surendira
‘Inner Peace’ NS26C
Jersey City, NJ
Ooooh. It’s always easy to suggest to someone else to throw money at a problem, but now it’s a different problem: you have a new boat and you’d like to use it before the end of the season. Very understandable!
I know a lot of you east-coasters haul your boats in the winter. Do you plan to do this? That would give you the opportunity to double check on the rudder installation at a later date.
Replies to your 6 comments:
1 and 5. That’s cool.
2. But you have a good replacement.
3. A diver who has actually done other in-water rudder replacements is an asset I hadn’t considered. Can you ask for a reference? I’ve had quite a bit of experience with divers in the floating home world. A good diver can do amazing things. We had all of the logs replaced on our last house ($60,000). Some divers can move foam around, some can only place it. Etc. If you actually have a competent diver, I wouldn’t worry about the weight of the rudder (other than getting it into the water for him) because he will make it weightless.
3a. I predict it will be $400 or more, but if you can pull it off that’s still better than $2000 plus the wait.
4. You are going to be pushing the shaft up through seals and bearings. I’ve never seen this before and can only imagine it, but I can also imagine the rudder shaft pulling in salt water as it goes. This (plus the $200) is the part that bothered me when I first read about it. I assume the lower bearing must be capable of handling salt water because a perfect seal was never made. Maybe you can be inside with a towel to make sure water doesn’t go into the upper bearing? Hopefully someone who knows better than I can address it.
4a. But it also seems like something you could check in the winter if you haul the boat.
6. A good backup plan.
I have read about other owners replacing rudders on land, but if anyone has done it in the water I imagine you would have heard from them by now. It looks like in the future you may be that person!
Thanks Brian. My confidence stems from 3 things.
Thanks,
Siva Surendira
‘Inner Peace’ NS26C
Jersey City, NJ
If you haven’t already done so, I suggest soaking the nut and the quadrant hardware with your favourite release oil.
The quadrant may pose it biggest problem on reassembly.
Mike Jennings.
NS005C Chancy.
Port Moody, BC.
Just a comment of interest more than anything else but in the last Vendee Globe race British sailor Pip Hare replaced a broken rudder on her IMOCA 60 by herself somewhere between point Nemo and Cape Horn …….. so it is possible.
Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.
Paul,
Absolutely, in the absence of other options, a determined soul can do amazing things.
I wish I had a shore support team like Pip Hare… I’m lucky to have this group to help me with my NonSuch questions.
But seriously, I appreciate the knowledge that is shared here… it’s been a big help to a 1st year NonSuch owner. I’ll definitely stick around to help others.
Rob Cohen
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Westport, CT
I would go for the $200 in the water fix, if it doesn’t work out you havn’t lost that much and then you go for the 2k version. Is this the same diver that helped drop the rudder?
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
I don’t know whether the rudder has positive, neutral, or negative buoyancy. I believe it’d depend on whether the foam inside the shell counters the weight of the rudderstock and fiberglass.
It doesn’t matter for making the in-water vs. in-yard decision, but if going the in-water route could matter for how a diver would proceed.
I suspect that whether the rudder wants to float, sink, or sit there wouldaffect a lot what’s involved in pulling the old one out (easy if it sinks, hard if it floats). Ditto for maneuvering the new one in (don’t want to lose it if it wants to sink, have to figure out how to get it in vertical position under the boat if it wants to float).
Anyone know the answer? If not, Siva, I guess you will if you use the diver and have a chance to watch. If so, let us all know, would you please?
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status
I believe it isn’t the divers first regatta. (Sorry I couldn’t help myself).
Mike.
Chancy.
The depth is 12 ft at the marina. The diver is planning to use a couple of airbags to ensure that the rudder floats (incase it sinks).
The diver has recovered several items from the marina’s bed. So he is confident either way.
Thanks,
Siva Surendira
‘Inner Peace’ NS26C
Jersey City, NJ
Experienced commercial divers tend to be knowledgeable about buoyancy. If it is too light, he should be able to make it heavier. If it is too heavy, he’ll make it lighter. A foam-filled rudder is going to tend to be heavier at the top than at the bottom and I bet countering that is the tricky part. But the guy claims to have done it before so he should be able to do Siva’s.
Brian Godfrey
I recall reading that people who pulled the rudder on land had to dig holes underneath it in order to be able to drop the rudder far enough. That shouldn’t be a problem in 12 ft of water. It looks from the Nonsuch26WheelSteering.pdf drawing like the total height of the rudder assembly should be 6’-6.5" (78.5 inches). Since 3 ft. of that is rudder post that goes inside the boat, to get the rudder vertical for insertion requires 9 ft. 6.5" clearance underneath the boat.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status
Whatever method is chosen. Photos or a video documenting the procedure would make for interesting viewing or an article in the Nonsuch Update.
Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island