My wife and I are relatively new owners of a 1981 Nonsuch 30. The boat is in good shape and has been well maintained by its previous owners (3). We plan to keep it for many years. I was wondering if anyone could give us some advice about the following:
is it really necessary to demast over winter, or is it ok to leave the wishbone and mast up (we did this last year)
or is it better to demast and shrink wrap the boat (cost in Toronto seems to be around $400-500) (or leave the mast up and shrink wrap?)
or are there covers custom-made for Nonsuchs that you can buy or order
Our haul-out date is October 29 so we have to make some decisions in the next few weeks.
I believe it depends on a few things how to answer your questions. I’ve been advised that it’s best to NOT leave your mast up because of wind and vibration that resonates down the mast, which can cause problems with the fiberglass areas around the mast collar and beyond… cracking, etc. I understand it’s NEVER a good idea to leave the mast up if you have jack stands because again the wind and vibration has caused some boats to come off their stands. Jack stands need to be chained and adequately supported with plywood pads under them so they don’t “walk”.
There are some benefits to having a cradle especially with bunks rather than screw jacks because the bunks support the hull better in high winds if its stored with the mast up. Whichever type of cradle design you may use I believe it will support your boat best, although jack stands are more than adequate providing you have enough of them to support your hull properly… with the mast down. I believe the best answer is to un-step your mast, stored where it can be supported well to insure it doesn’t sag and where it will also allow you to check the track, mast joint and other areas of the mast for fatigue and wear.
There should be canvas companies that can fabricate a cover in the Toronto area, Genco is one that comes to mind and I’m sure there must be others. A friend of mine had his 34’ Catalina done with a metal frame work and canvas type cover for around $3,000 a couple years ago by a company in Buffalo, to give you an idea of cost… the pay-back is around 5-6 years versus the cost of shrink wrap or inside storage. Inside storage for our 30’ is $650 more than outside storage thereby giving us just under a 5 year payback. Shrink wrap is OK (not very environmentally friendly) but there have been issues with mildew and mold if there isn’t adequate ventilation, and that goes for a cover as well… you want to make sure whatever cover you use has ample vents for air circulation. It doesn’t hurt to have some DampRid containers located throughout the cabin area over the winter to absorb any moisture that could cause mold and mildew. That’s especially important if you store cushions onboard.
There’s adequate time to have a cover made since most canvas companies are wrapping up their season, pardon the pun. Good luck with whatever decision you make.
In most places in Toronto the wind in winter is such that the usual advise is to demast for winter (see long past discussions on the INA group).
In most clubs you will not have a choice, and you must bring it down;
but you left it up last year – so perhaps at the outer harbor marina ? where you may have to leave it up ?
Most people seem to think that shrink-wrap is bad for the boat.
I use a custom Keeble cover which is heavy waxed cotton canvas and has its own pole system;
but some do not like the such covers and prefer to leave the deck bare to the wind.
More detail when we know where you are located.
C KEEBLE FOR SAILS LTD ON, 25 DUNDAS STREET WEST, K8P 3M7 BELLEVILLE | 613-968-9723
cheers,
Jon Matthews
EVENSONG N30U #266
National Yacht Club in Toronto
Craig, As others have already replied, the consensus over the years is that it is probably wisest to demast the boat when storing it for the winter on the hard.
As to covering or not and how best to do so, We have always stored our Nonsuch outside and covered. For the first 10 years or so I used poly tarps. If you take the lifelines down and put a couple poles in the cockpit area, the poly tarps work OK without an elaborate support structure. The are two problems with poly tarps: securing them adequately and, like shrink wrap, mildew. The only time I ever had a mildew problem over the winter was in a Cape Dory 30 we owned before our Nonsuch that I had very thoroughly wrapped with a poly tarp.
About four years ago, I bought a propane torch and now shrink wrap my own boat. It is a fairly straight forward process and has worked very well for us. I put 6-8 vents in the cover and have never had any issues with mildew but I am careful to make sure the boat is well dried out before covering it and remove the cover before it warms up too much in the spring, usually sometime in the latter half of April. The cost of materials to shrink wrap our boat is $60-$75 per year. You can easily get a torch for ~$150. The shrink wrap material can be recycled.
I do not have any first-hand experience with custom canvas covers but know they can be quite expensive.
Craig, as you are planning to keep your 30 for many years, I think you will find a custom cover a good investment for wintering in Toronto where there are many freeze thaw cycles. I own a 1981 26C which I bought in 2006. My first investment was in a Genco light weight cover which I can handle without assistance. It allows light into the boat in winter and has vents for good air circulation. Genco owns a 30 so I am sure they can make one that will fit your boat. You may find it an advantage to have yours made in two pieces for ease of handling.
The mast should come out to reduce stress on the hull and for maintenance.
To improve air circulation, I remove the knotlog transducer. This is also a safety measure in the event that water finds its way into the bilge. One unfortunate owner had water rise above the cabin sole requiring extensive refurbishing when his cover dislodged.
I also am a new owner of a 1981 Nonsuch 30. We went through the same
search and research as you are going through. We decided to unstep the
mast and place it on the Marinas mast rack.
The shrink wrap cost in Duluth MN is $650US. If you subscribe to the
magazine "Good Old Boat" you will find and add for a boat cover. I
called the number and when half way through dialing realized it was a
company local here in Duluth. Did not know the owner, before that
call, did not even know we had a sail maker here. I have spoken to him
and checked his work, as you may guess there are a number of covers
available to look at here. Nice looking and seem to be holding up
well.
They advertise a 30 ft boat for $1320US more or less, They have
another version in the $1800 range with heavier cloth, I think. Given
our boat size and any options you may want, He will make an actual
pattern from my boat and that should make it easier for any one else
that thinks this is a good idea.. The sail makers email is
jwelinski@me.com ; web address www.shipshapecanvas.com ; phone
#(218) 624-5677
We will be using, at his suggestion a 2X6 ridge from the back of the
mast partners to slightly in front of the wheel. Planning on 3 or 4
standards to hold it up. The ridge height is planned at 5' 6" over the
cockpit he offered to make it taller and did send me a photo of a
frame he built for a boat with the mast down. I addition there will be
a sewn option for a mast opening that if ever needed can be opened up.
Hope you find this useful.
I always pull the mast and recommend everyone does. Easy to do and gives you a chance to thoroughly inspect it. A lot more stress is placed on the hull when the mast is in and the boat is secure in a cradle with no give as when its in the water.
I have an aluminum pipe frame I put up and cover with a tarp from Princess Auto. A 50 x 50 tarp is less than $100 on sale and lasts two seasons or more depending upon winter winds.
I did shrink wrap the frame my first year but it ended up costing me around $500 and I would rather buy boat gear than shrink wrap.
Genco in TO make a great tarp and a unique frame and if I recall you can have both for under $3000. (That's about 30 seasons if you use a tarp).
The tarp relies on your personal construction skills.
Jamie Morrison
Dexterity II
30U 225
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Thanks to everyone for the information provided. It is very useful. In light of what has been said, we have definitely decided to take down the mast. We are at the Outer Harbour Marina in Toronto and having this done is routine, apparently. Having said that, it is surprising how many sailboats here including half a dozen Nonsuchs leave their masts up and their boats uncovered all winter. In fact I think this is the reason some people winter their boats here. The guy at Puddle Duck told us that if your boat is water tight then it is not necessary to cover it up. The surveyor advised us to step the mast.
As far as I know in-door storage isn’t an option here. I imagine if it were available it would probably be very expensive.
We bought a standard steel cradle (with c channel) to replace the original old cradle that came with the boat.
We’ll do some inquiries at Genco and the other places mentioned in the posts to find out about covers. We are both busy with jobs etc. and don’t have a lot of time to build frames and so on, so we will probably try to get something that we can install fairly efficiently.
I understand that at yacht clubs the boats are always stored in the winter with the masts stepped. We are thinking about joining Ashbridge’s Bay next year or some day if we can get in.
The Farmers supply store in Bowmanville has 48X30 14 ply silver tarps for $107.00. A few 2X4 horses to put the wishbone on (almost replaces a frame) and 3 fenders per side and wrap it.
Works for me, the fenders let the air circulate as does the wishbone and the side measure of 30’ keeps the nasty snowy wet out.
Not bad for less than $150- and a couple of hours time.
Dictated to my iPhone 4S which still has not mastered the subtle aspects of a Scottish accent but should be able to get most of it right.
When we bought our 30U, Rendezvous, we did not cover it over winter here on Long Island. While nothing bad happened, it was quickly apparent that was not the way to go - the cockpit drains and the deck drain are routed through the boat and they freeze up over the winter - had they broken, we would of had problems, potentially big time.
We shrinked wrapped the boat for a number of years, but for the past three, have set-up a Conestoga wagon type system of PVC pipes and thrown a couple of blue tarps that I sewed together over it. I use 3/4" pipes with tee fittings on the ends for the hoops and a 1 1/2" ridge pole, all duct tapped together. I then run some 3/4" pipes down the sides, about 1 1/2’ above the life lines. I originally put braces to hold it all up, but last winter did not - the whole thing flexes a lot in the wind and the braces jumped all around and did nothing in the end. Liberal use of carpet scraps.
This year I am taking one of the old reef lines we have and will run it down each side of the boat on the deck to insure the tee fittings on the end of the hoops stay in place. I figure that will be a much neater solution then the odd and end lines we have used in the past.
The tarps are getting a bit thin and ragged, but should be good for one more year. In total, I have about $225 in my cover. To get onto the boat over the winter I crawl in over the stern which is left open, as is the bow. Some snow gets in, but not much and it has never been a problem. I have some tarp attachments that I can use in the middle of the material or where the original grommets have pulled out that have given great longevity to the tarp. Without, I would have had to buy new already.
When the wind is 30- 40 mph and a heavy snow is coming down, I will admit to needless worrying. It is always OK when I go to check on it,