I am ready to sail other than lubing my sheet winch so tomorrow is the day. That’s tyhe good news. The bad news is I think I need to remove a line clutch that in my opinion is in the wrong location and my be unnecessary. The picture below is the starboard cabin top. The line clutch as it is now installed is kind of a pain to use. I am tempted to remove it as attaching it to any of the lines moves it out of the path of the winch.
On Swoose to starboard I have an original toothed vee jammer for choke and 2 small lever release clutches serving the topping lift and which ever clew reefing line in use. I use the original small Barient winch for these lines. To port I have the large rubber Wincher capped halyard winch and one small Barient winch for Cunningham/tack reef line with only cleats, none are ST. My only ST is the Anderson 28ST, which replaced the original Barient. Works for me with my balance problems, only need to leave cockpit to move the Cunningham hook up to the first reef tack cringle under relatively moderate conditions.
Richard Lane
NS26c #35 Swoose
Port Townsend.
I have a bank of three Lewmar rope clutches on each side companionway on the cabin top. The location in your photo does not look too bad. If I were installing it I would have had it further away towards the bow and inboard another 3/4". The lines are suppose to come out of the clutch and clockwise around the winch so the bank has to be offset to the starboard some what from the winch. With a triple bank you need to compromise a bit since all three won’t fully line up with the edge of the winch. With a triple bank I tend to line the middle clutch up with the edge of the winch or ever so slightly more to the outside. With the bank further away from the winch the angles will not be as acute as they are on your set up. I don’t have a picture of the clutches on La Reina but John Newell sent me a photo of his cabin top in which the bank of clutches look to be at least 6 to 8" ahead of the winch. Some bend coming out of the clutches is acceptable.
The part of the cabin top where you clutch bank is mounted will be solid glass (no core) so if you move the bank it will not be too big of an issue filling the holes.
I have my topping lift and the two leech reef lines on the starboard side. I grind in the first reef and it is locked by the rope clutch. I can take the line off the winch if I need to go to the second reef. Then as the winds drops I can let out the second reef and the first reef is still set. The cleats work nicely but if you use them along with the winch it is more challenging to free the winch for another line. I also find that when sailing The First Sea Lord can hand me a line and I can haul it in from the wheel. The clutch stays locked No need to tie and untie the line from the cleat. If the line need easing the First Sea Lord puts a couple of warps around the winch and then opens the clutch. I think they are nice to have.
I moved mine, actually I replaced mine with 2 set of 3 clutches either side, lined them up perfectly to feed the winches. It’s a relatively simple job, but will require some painting to cover the abandoned/filled holes.
The entire area is accessible once the interior ceiling liner panels are removed.
PS. The reefing lines really don’t ‘need’ the winch…so I erred to lining up the halyards (I have 2) and topping lift.
John,
“PS> The reefing lines really don’t 'need” the winch" If that is true either you are very strong or I need you to come and set up the lines on La Reina.
Actually, I don’t use a winch for any reefing lines but, heck, my boat is an NS22 - smaller sail. However, I do raise the topping lift a bit “too high” to ease any strain, then pull in the reef, then drop the topping lift, letting the sail set its own shape.
I’ve never felt the need to winch on my reefing lines either, that’s on a 26. I finally rigged my Cunningham today and what a nice result hard to weather. Gave me a half knot bump immediately. Cleaned up the lower third of the foil nicely.
Pat Furr
26C #133
Bandolero
Charlotte, VT
I see some of you have the line clutches as little as 3" or so forward of the winches. I am getting ready to install some, and would like to get them that close since that would make the anchors accessible from the access port in the cabin. Do you find that awkward at all, being so close to the winch?
Ken Julian
“Idyll Ours” NS26C#9
Saint John, New Brunswick
Ken,
By anchors I take it you mean the backing plate and nuts for the clutches. I found access to be a challenge when I installed the clutches on La Reina. I had to use a box end wrench and tape the nut and washers to the wrench to install some of them. A finger wrench worked on some of the others to get them started. Holding my tongue in exactly the right place and choosing the corrects expletives also helped.
One issue you need to think about is that some clutches unlock with the handles/levers lifting forward, other brands unlock with the handles lifting towards the stern. If the handles open to the stern you need to make sure there is clearance so that you don’t hit the winch with the handles or your hands when you operate the clutches. Moving the clutch further ahead of the winch means that angles are less acute which is better, however you don’t want the clutches so far away that it is difficult to reach them during operation nor do you want them interfering with the dodger/sprayhood if you have one.
3 inches might be a bit close for when you are wrapping the line around the winch.
I really hate where mine are located as they tend to complicate using the winch. I think I will take them off for a while just to see if line handling is any easier. If I do put them back on they will be moved toward the bow a bit. But I may replace them with some cam cleats .
FWIW, here’s a picture of mine and $0.015 worth of input on the topic.
You want to position the line clutch to get a clean path for each of the lines to the winch. The further you can conveniently place the clutch from the winch, the easier it is – the angles for the lines coming out of the clutch toward the winch don’t have to be as sharp. (This is on top of the point someone above made about leaving room for any handles that need to go backwards.) Obviously, you can’t put 'em too far away without putting them out of reach.
To get the room I needed, I ending up moving my winches as far back (aft) as I could manage given the size of the removable cover on the cabin liner, in addition to placing the clutches as far forward as those limitation would let me.
It was helpful to have a combination of open wrenches and a “deep socket” wrench (neat socket set where the individual sockets that plug into the wrench are hollow so tit doesn’t matter how long the bolt is. There’s enough deck curvature that I wasn’t sure a backing plate would end up flat against the deck, so I used large fender washers. It was frustrating (let’s just say, make sure you have extra fender washers and nuts if you follow this plan). Putting a little butyl tape on the washers so they’d stick to the underside of the cabintop helped.
Also, if you have people sailing with you who aren’t regulars, it’s helpful to put labels on both sides of each clutch handle so you can ask someone to open or close one without having to explain to them how to figure out which handle is the right one.
I have many sailing memories that start with a “helpful” crew member saying, “Oh, you mean this one?” Unfortunately, none of them are happy ones. One of the great ironies of life is that, the more eager someone is to help, the less likely they are to wait for an answer. But, that’s best left for another thread.
Glad you brought this topic up Randy and thanks for the tips Bob and all. This will really help me in deciding where to place the clutches.
Ken Julian
Idyll Ours
NS 26C #9
Saint John, New Brunswick
At risk of being redundant I send along this picture of my winch and rope clutch setup since it’s always worked for me, and with this discussion in mind this weekend I remembered to take a picture. Not wanting to waste precious pixels - here’s the picture.
No Paul, all 4 are old Easylock IIs that were on the boat when I bought her in 2002.
I found a source for the handles, which are only available in black now. The two on the left are in the open position since they clutch the clew reef lines, which were not under pressure. On the right are taut topping lift and choker.
