Today was a great day on the water, steady 10kt breeze gusting 15- 20kts straight across the river. One tack upstream for two hours, one tack back home. I reefed early, however, the reef looked really poor. Can someone give us some advice on how to improve the reef and the look of the sail. Where it mattered the sail looked and performed well, but the foot of the sail was an embarrassment.
Here are some photos:
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Other than easing the reef line a bit to pull some of the slack out of the foot that’s pretty much how the reefed sail looks.
When the first reef is in, that first reef clew should be tight flattening the sail like you have it, however that clew tension should come from pulling the choker on. What you may have done is tried to flatten the sail pulling in too much of the reef line, then the choker. I mark the reef lines so with the choker slack I haul them in and cleat them to the mark, then winch the choker.
Tom
26C #28 with a Botts sail.
Penetang
There is something very strange about the reefing lines in those photos. It seems that the clew cringle should be much lower and closer to the wishbone. The boat’s manual will tell you how to reef and I have seen the sequence on this discussion list several times. I don’t have the time right now to go into that. However. always remember to tension the halyard prior to tightening the clew to avoid breaking the sail slugs or distorting the track.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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I wondered the same thing about the cringle. My clew reefing line pulls much more "down " than this photo shows. It may just be the camera perspective, but the cringe looks more appropriately placed for the second reef point on the wishbone boom.
Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville, MD
I agree Joe, the sail does look odd. But if the sailmaker put the first reef cringle there then Tim doesn’t have much choice. Unless Tim used the second reef cringle by mistake (the photos don’t show that part of the sail) but then things would look really odd so I don’t think this is the case.
Tom
Jim, I agree completely, the second reef point seems to be almost perfectly in align, it will pull straight down however and not aft at all. I never intend to use the second reef as it seems to be set up for a greater than 70% reduction of sail area. That type of reduction is not required here in the midwest. Maybe I will move that first reefing line forward to the second reef block and use the chocker for any outhauling that the sail might need.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Tim,
How long are the lashing turns at the back of the boom? This raises a point I have not thought about before when
discussions have taken place about using a lashing to move the boom back. In moving the boom back in relation to the sail you have effectively moved the clew reef turning block back as well. You might try shorting the lashing turns so that the clew of the sail is not more then six inches from the casting on the boom. That should change the angle of the clew reef line.
I believe that most of the sailors using lashings have installed an eye bolt in the casting at the back of the boom where the shackle used to connect the sail to the boom. They then lash the clew to the eye bolt rather than around the casting as you have done. The eye of the bolt must be one piece and should be load rated. Whichard 5/16 eyes bolts are rated at 330 pounds. Because the bolt is fixed it does not cause wear to the casting. 1/8 dyneema is rated at 2300 pounds.
Mark Powers
La Reina 26C
Vancouver, B.C.
Tim, I agree that the outboard reef cringle in your photos appears to be too high and too far forward to give your reefed sail the correct set. On our boat, when reefed, the reef cringles are very nearly inline, both horizontally and vertically, with the reef line pad eyes and the corresponding reef line turning block. I had to use the first reef the last time I was out sailing and it is still in place. If I can remember to do so, I will post a picture of how ours looks next time I am at the boat. My guess is that your first reef cringle is positioned incorrectly as there does not appear to be any way for you to obtain the geometry we have with your setup.
David Young
Bay Cat, 30U #402
Traverse City / Suttons Bay, MI
Here are some photos from today using the 2nd reefing block for the first reef. Everything looks quite a bit better, but I will still need to play with a few things, such as the length of the lashing at the clew and the tension on the outboard reef line, should the tension come primarily from the reefing line or from the choker?. As you can see from the last photo, the 2nd reef cringle on the main is still way up there, just below the numbers. She preformed well like this today, we managed to hit 5.5 kts and only a few scary gybes, that I did manage to soften some.
Tom, Joe, Jim, Mark, and David, thank you all. We love the boat. We are taking this as a shakedown season and we are solving one problem at a time. We really appreciate the help.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
That look much more reasonable!
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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I think that looks better at the foot. Although wouldn’t worry too much about the length of the reefing lines when they were rigged to the first boom block, instead I would use whichever position gave you the best sail shape and was easiest to use.
Be careful, one day you may pull more of the reef line and when you tension the choker this will squeeze the boom together with tremendous force. As it is now it looks OK but with less line here it may break the boom.
Tension comes from the choker, you won’t be able to pull any of the clew reef line with the choker set. But in the end the tension on the choker line is countered by the clew.
BTW there is a twist in your topping lift line between the two blocks. It causes friction at a bad place. Easy to fix - untwist it by hand and then tighten the little allen set screw at the base of the bottom block so it won’t rotate.
Tom
Thanks Tom, I will take care of that twist right away. I hadn’t noticed it until you pointed it out. Pretty obvious now.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
IMHO, it looks a little better but still not great. Seems rather baggy along the foot aft. Doesn’t look like either of your reef cringles really match up with the reefing hardware on your boom but there are so many variables from boat to boat and sail to sail it is hard to really say what your problem is or whether you actually have a problem or not.
David Young
Bay Cat, 30U #402
Traverse City / Suttons Bay, MI
Heck…why not weigh in to this, eh !!!
I, too, had to reef today. This unbelievable heat dissipated thanks to nice North winds giving us flat water and around 12 - 15 knots with gusts. I used my 1st reef but didn’t take pictures. What I will say is that my reefs look clean (not because I’m so smart but because things match up well, etc., etc.).
IMHO (love that acronym), a couple of things really don’t look too kosher in your photos, Tim. We’ve all talked about lashing the clew - fine. But it needs to be lashed such that the sail sits no further forward of the end of the boom than if it was shackled, like an inch or so. I feel (strongly) that your lash is WAY too long and that upsets the geometry.
Quite possibly, your topping lift is too tight and looks like it is supporting the boom as you sail. It should not. The (reefed or unreefed) sail should support the boom - the topping lift is a convenience that keeps the boom from falling into the cockpit, on our heads, when we aren’t sailing.
Furthermore, unless you have a REALLY goofy sail (and I doubt this) something is out of whack if you are achieving the best trim by using the 1st TACK reef point and the 2nd CLEW reef point.
May i suggest - On a windless day, with the choker loose, raise the sail and pull the 1st TACK reef point DRUM tight. It should sit right at the pulley that sends the line back to you in the cockpit (as if it was shackled right there). Then, pull the 1st CLEW reef point really tight so that the cringle sits as close as you can get it to the pulley or tie-off point on the rear of the boom. Here’s a trick - Play with the TOPPING lift in order to minimize the distance between the cringle and the pulley THEN loosen the topping lift, allowing the sail to hold the boom up.
I will bet that you’ll achieve a decent trim. Same deal with the 2nd reef points, if you use them.
Try the above - I think it’ll work.
Cheers,
Ernie A. in Toronto
Thanks Ernie, I will try those tips. One point of clarification though. Today I used the 1st reef tack point and the 1st reef clew cringle, however I used the 2nd outboard reef line for this. I did not use the 2nd reef clew point. That 2nd reef clew cringle is way up near to the numbers in the photo.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Hi All,
Sounds like Tim’s questions have been well covered. I have a general reefing comment I believe is worth mentioning.
About 8,9 years ago when I had an N30 (just got N22), there was a long discussion on reefing technique and as I recall, an interesting conclusion. Still seems reasonable. It was:
When you first begin to reef, don’t drop sail until tack reef cringle reaches final position. Instead, keep cringle a few inches above the desired final position. Set tack reef line to hold this position. Then put tension on halyard until fairly tight. THEN can use tack reef line as though it were a Cunningham. Much easier to get a nice tight luff than with halyard.
Other viewpoints?
Brooks Bridges
NS22OB #24 An B’ad
Cambridge MD
Now THAT is a heck of a good idea, Brooks. My only problem is that my port cabin-top winch is preoccupied, with the halyard wrapped around it. I do not have a rope clutch so all that I can do is yank on the tack reef line with my poor old sad shoulder as I only have a 2:1 mechanical advantage. but … I’ll give it a shot, anyway !!
Thanks,
Ernie A. in Toronto
I do miss the rope clutches on my N30. Yesterday I tried this and don’t remember having to pull that hard to get a better luff so yes, worth a try.
Looks to me like you’ve got the forward reef line at the 1st reef cringle and teh aft reef line at the 2nd reef clew cringle.
Craig Stanley
S/V Matou NS 354
Tampa
According to Ed Botterell in his booklet, Nonsuch thots By Botts, when reefing if you pull the leech cringle down to the boom you can put too much stress on the two arms of the boom with the risk of bending them. You want to aim for about one foot above the boom.
Mark Powers
La Reina 26C
Vancouver, B.C.
