Hey folks,
Today the wind vane cups from the top of my mast fell off (luckily it fell right into the cockpit). I need to climb up to replace/repair it.
I am also curious what is the best approach and set up is.,
I’ve read in the previous discussions about using the ATN Mastclimber (and other homemade version with climbing equipment). How and where is the halyard tied off? I am weary of having only 1 halyard and not having redundancy.
Thanks for your input and ideas!
Robin: Try and remember to sign your posts with where you are, what you have and where it is. You may find a near neighbor with an answer.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Robin -
You may not like this suggestion but, considering this is a new boat to you, would you consider pulling the mast (yikes !! $$$) and using the opportunity to double-check everything, possibly install a second halyard, fix the wind indicator, double-check the joint in the mast, check the sail track, double-check the sheaves at the masthead, etc., etc. And double-check the entire mast step area without the mast being in your way.
You could remove the sail, drop the boom onto decent supports on yiour bow and stern, moor by the mast crane wherever you are docked and pull the stick, storing it for a couple of days. Do whatever you wish and re-step the mast and away you go, knowing a lot more about the whole she-bang.
As you are in the Bay area, I imagine that you don’t plan to pull the mast regularly and that the boat will likely stay in the water for, maybe, a few years at a time.
This could be the big opportunity.
Ernie A. in Toronto
PS - Speaking of the mast crane, using it to hoist yourself up the mast is a dangerous idea though, sadly, it’s done a lot.
I am just working through this problem myself. We pulled the mast and had it completely checked over, rewired and all the joint bolts replaced 2 years ago. At the same time we put up a new anemometer and a windex. Unfortunately, the anemometer is now no longer reporting any wind speed or direction so I need to get it down from the top of the mast to do more troubleshooting. Some friends of ours have an ATN Mastclimber and have offered to go up for us which is wonderful! At the same time I have decided that I need my own gear to be able to do that work in the future.
What I have come up with is using rock climbing gear to go up and descend. As our boat only has a single halyard, like yours, I have decided to use prusik knots around the mast as my safety. It will require carrying two prusik lines and every time I hit an obstruction (lights, hangers, etc.) I rig a new knot above it. I got the idea from a video on youtube where fellow went up his mast without a halyard and just dual prusiks. https://youtu.be/b2VcrDDoxAk
Robin,
I don’t know what size boat you have, or your physical condition.
I’ve still got, and have used on other boats, an ATN top climber that I used to use to go up the 60-something foot mast on a 42’ sailing cat. It’s a lot of work, although manageable if you’re in good shape. And, that approach does offer better access to the top of a mast than a bosun’s chair. If you were going to do it, my best guess would be that you’d have to attach the halyard shackle to a fitting on the mast collar.
If you don’t have a second halyard as a back-up, then you could possibly use webbing loops around the mast designed to use friction to slow a fall although that will still make for a complicated rescue. I’ve been told that the flag halyard block on the side of the mast can serve as a second halyard block for going up the mast if you run larger line through it, but you’d have to verify that for your own specific boat.
Personally, though, I prefer hiring a good, well-insured professional for climbing the mast on a smaller Nonsuch. The mast will probably handle your weight but I wouldn’t enjoy it, considering that it’s designed to be bendy under wind forces alone. I wouldn’t do it any more if you paid me to, but there are folks who will.
Unless you’re a rigger or an ocean crosser, it’s hard to amortize the cost of equipment needed to assure a safe climb across the small number of times you’ll need to do it.
My $0.015, fwiw.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
There is a boatload of vids on Youtube on doing this.
Thanks all for the input and opinions, really helpful as always. I will share where I’ve netted out in a few days once I do some more research.
Robin B
ZOE, 30U #307
SF Bay, CA
I know it’s probably obvious, but be really sure that the halyard is secured. I just had the rigging survey on the boat I am trying to buy and the rigger (30+ years exp. and highly recommended) told me a couple of interesting things.
First, and quickest, he hates unstayed masts because he bounces around like a jig on a fishing line. So those of you who do this certainly have my respect and those of us who don’t, well I’m certainly not going to feel wussy about not going up there. Or if I do feel wussy, I’ll just learn to live with it.
Second, there are no spreaders which significantly reduces his safety margin. And the example he gave: he was once up a 60’ mast when suddenly the halyard went slack and he fell. Fortunately, he had clipped a safety line around a spreader so he only experienced an adrenaline reaction. What had happened is that the captain of the boat (and he emphasized that the guy was a licensed captain) had become bored and started tidying up his boat. The halyard was pulled all the way up and so spread around the winch area. The guy just undid it, took it off the winch, and let it go so he could coil it.
Obviously, he told me this story as part of his admonition not to touch that halyard.
If a licensed captain could make such a nearly fatal screw-up, so can you or whoever is there to help you.
Incidentally, he did not rely just on the halyard and winch to hoist himself up. Not sure how he’d ever do that as he usually works alone. He used the halyard to raise a block that had his climbing line in it and some sort of mountain climbing gizmo with a ratchety sound. (Pretty useful, eh?) I am a sea-level kind of a guy and have no intention of going up there, and I was trying to remember and/or note everything I could about the boat, so I don’t remember the type of rope or the name of the gadget. The rope is white (nylon, I think) and really fuzzy - intentionally. He says he only uses it because it is easier on his hands. It was also way oversized for the same reason. It looked 5/8" or 3/4", but hard to say for sure because it was very fuzzy. He also said that he doesn’t climb halyards with his gizmo because it wears out the clients’ lines. But I suspect once won’t hurt - after all, mountain climbers trust their lives to their equipment.
Robin,
I had the same experience that Bob is talking about. Riggers told me that they hate, or won’t go up unstayed masts because, “ there’s nothing to hold on to.” I had work done at Svedsens in Richmond, and at that time they used a bucket hoist on a seawall next to their warf. Your boat is tied at the warf and at low tide they just put a rigger in the lift and do the work. I think it’s easier and cheaper than pulling the mast. Grand Marina might have the same arrangement. Alameda Marina used to have a spot on a dry dock where it could be done without a hoist but million dollar condos became more important.
You could always get a handheld wind gauge to use temporarily. I have seen them occasionally, lightly used, at Blue Pelican Marine.
Good Luck and stay cool.
Dave King N22 “Suey.” Alameda
If you take the rig down this season, I strongly recommend installing a second halyard in the mast, which will allow you to climb the mast with a safety line (2nd halyard). I wouldn’t climb without one, nor ask anyone else to do it for me.
I installed a second sheave and halyard in. My N36 when I first bought it, which was well worth the effort.
Barry Connell
Nocturne (N36)
Newburyport, MA
Thanks Dave, worth looking into for sure!
Robin B
ZOE, 30U #307
SF Bay, CA
I have been up Nonsuch Luck’s mast several times and found the experience challenging and exhilarating. Our unstayed masts do not bounce around creating the feeling of a ‘jig on a fishing line’ any more than a stayed mast does; they both flex when required. As to something to hold on to a fat tube is much easier to grip than a skinny one though I can see the spreaders do offer the chance of rest and relaxation as the ascent continues! I do however take these precautions.
Finally, I’d rather depend on my unstayed mast’s great strength rather than the myriad of items that are required to support a stayed mast.
Bob Illingworth
Nonsuch Luck 30U #367 (GBR1262T)
Moored Titchmarsh marina, Essex, UK; cruising the rivers of East Anglia, and, the North Sea.
Thanks Bobby et all. Quick question about the second halyard, if there is no exit on the mast for it (which there is not on mine) does that mean that the mast head is only set up for one? In case there where two sheaves in the mast head is it safe to add an exit at the base?
Robin B
ZOE, 30U #307
SF Bay, CA
It is acceptable to cut an extra exit point for a second halyard as long as it’s 2 metres (6ft 7in) above the deck. On Nonsuch Luck the exit for the spare halyard is 2.23 meters (7ft 4in) above the deck and the main halyard exit point is 2.7 metres (8ft 10in). When cutting a new hole in one of our masts it is important to ensure all the edges, the inner edge as well as the outer edge, are made very smooth using a fine file followed by medium grit sandpaper. This is to prevent any stress cracks propagating from the new hole.
Bob Illingworth
Nonsuch Luck 30U #367 (GBR1262T)
Moored Titchmarsh marina, Essex, UK; cruising the rivers of East Anglia, and, the North Sea.
Please use extreme care and look at all the failure modes that could let you down. We were close to a fatal mast accident due to failure of the halyard. I will never go up the mast. You should always have a second means of support in my opinion. If it is not another halyard, I am not sure what you could use with our masts. I vote for waiting for a mast removal or hiring an expert who has the proper equipment. Some have suggested the flag halyard sheave can serve as a back up with an appropriate line.
I would also be careful about choice of sandpaper for smoothing the edges of any new hole in the mast. Some contain a grit which will embed in the aluminium and initiate corrosion.
Peter Moodie
Nonsuch 30U Catalyst #366
Sidney, BC/Winnipeg, MB
I vote for pulling the mast. In life, all things are relative. If you live in Newfoundland, you may end up with your boat in the water for 3 - 4 months. If you live around the Great Lakes (home to many, many sailors), your season will be about 6 months long. If you live “into the south” or on the middle west coast, your boat could be in the water all year.
Robin - you live in the Bay area and this means that you (you lucky dog) will be able to sail all year. Play it safe, my friend. Lose one lousy week’s sailing (or less), spend not a fortune, pull the mast, check everything (and maybe, make changes) and you are done like dinner. Plan it, think about it then do it. Call it an opportunity to learn and to fix. Remember, Mark Ellis, our boats’ designer AND George Hinterhoeller, our boats’ builder, strongly suggested to pull the mast periodically to check it for cracks, problems, etc.
Like Peter Moodie, I’d never, ever go up the mast as the penalty for something, anything going wrong (always a possibility) likely would involve death or horrible injury. Imagine that happening as a result of a recreational pursuit. Pretty ridiculous, I’d say.
Nope, that ain’t the hill that is going to take me out (not that I’m sure about what other hill WILL do the job … )
Ernie A. in Toronto
totally agree. always have a safety backup or let the yard do it!
This makes me curious about radar mounting. I’ve seen some photos of your boats with radar and some without. The boat I’m trying to buy does not have it and I plan to add it. The question is how to do it without compromising the mast? I’ve seen radar mounts that clamp around a wooden mast, but most that I’ve seen bolt on. It seems like clamping could be a very bad thing unless it was carefully matched to the taper of the mast at the height you wanted it and well padded. Sounds pretty unlikely that such a mount exists. But drilling holes in the mast might introduce weak points leading to cracking.
Which side of the mast sees the least amount of tension stress? That would seem like the side where you’d want to drill your holes.
Am I overthinking this? How have those of you with radar mounted it?
Thanks,
Brian: This has been discussed before. Go to the INA site and search for it as there is an answer. BTW, it would be nice to know what you have and where it is. Also, since the subject has been changed, so should the discussion identity.
Regards,
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
At 82 I’m inclined to use the yard as it’s only 45 minutes away. I haven’t been up my mast in about 10 years but when I used to go up, my assistant would use the electric halyard winch and we would tie a rolling hitch on the mast. It had to be moved periodically as you ascended for descended but if you moved up or down too fast, it stopped you. Going up your mast is something you don’t want to learn under emergency conditions. The other trick, often used by sailors, is to find a friendly bridge.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA