This seems like a good point to update anyone interested in my different rigging for the topping lift. Some may recall when I discovered “Cheers” my NS-22 had a 2 sheave masthead fitting, with the 2nd sheave not being used. During haul out in March with the mast down I ran a 2nd internal halyard thinking a spare halyard would be nice. I was replacing lines, blocks and fittings as needed and one of the last things to replace was the topping lift system. I was looking at an increase in mechanical advantage, new blocks, better leads etc. to reduce friction. I discovered the safety cable. I was concerned about all this hardware and its movement , its weight and potential to chafe on the leach. I then looked at the spare halyard which really did nothing but be there to back up a potential failure of the main halyard. I attached it to the boom end and found I could raise and lower the wishbone clew end easily with the main halyard winch, a stopper and a cleat. The range of up and down movement was greatly increased. There is no tackle to shift on gybes or tacks. There is just the single line which is labeled Topping Lift / Emergency Halyard. This setup seems to be working fine. The 2 halyards do touch at times downwind at the masthead. This does not seem to be a problem. So far so good so to speak, but I will give it a full season and update again. If anyone sees some fault with doing this please let me know. Don McNees “Cheers” NS-22 #16 Puget Sound Wa.
When on the run in a swell, you will find that the wishbone will catch the waves and be dragged back only to be released with a slam on the next roll. To reduce or prevent the problem, the topping lift should be used to lift the wishboom clear of the water. As conditions deteriorate, it would be prudent to take in a reef or two.
John Newell,
Mascouche 26C 1
Toronto
John,
Well said ,
… to keep the boom out of the water or ripping the sail when things an are booming. I was trying to think of a succinct answer and you beat me. I just added the ripping sail thing.
Brian
Boat-less in New England
Don, the arrangement you described sounds like the topping lift setup on the 260, 324 and 354. One thing you might want to consider is after the sail is fully hoisted, the choker fully hardened and the topping lift slack so it does not interfere with the sail shape is to mark the topping lift with a piece of tape. Then lower the sail and see if the boom is high enough to be safe. If so tie a stopper knot in the halyard just behind the rope clutch. That way if someone inadvertently releases the topping lift the knot will stop the boom from hitting someone on the head. I am not aware of any way to add a safety pig tail or strop to the halyard/topping lift setup.
Mark Powers
Don
I am a new Nonsuch owner this year. Coming from traditional catboat Marshall 22, I did exactly what you described with second “spare” halyard and used it as second topping lift. I kept the block system but shorten the line( line was long enough just to reach the mast) and installed a small cleat under the wishbone. This only out of desperation of not knowing how it was rigged. No sign of appropriate block at the mast nor the line was not long enough to reach the cockpit.
I am assuming that as with Marshall 22 topping lift will not have to be operated under sail because the sail is taking all the weight of the sail. I don’t think I can expect to sail to shape right with the topping lift tight. The original topping wire with the keeper is loose when the boom is high enough. I left the rope topping lift hard and I found that I needed to loosen to shape the sail.
I assume that the chocker is a combination of vang and outhual.
Naoto
SusanK 2
Nonsuch 30U
291
Kennebunkport, ME.
I am also new to the Nonsuch cult. I really like the little boat and am having a good time working on it and using it. I have always had a somewhat sideways approch to everything and I am very happy with this simplified topping lift. It eliminates a lot of stuff flopping around up there. To me the choker is the primary draft control for the sail. It does hold down the front of the wishbone and moves the draft forward for upwind or aft for off the wind.. The topping lift works with the mainsheet to adjust the clew height position. raising the clew and spilling wind in the top of the sail comes in handy to depower prior to the need to reef . In sloppy water and light air the choker keeps the wishbone from banging against the mast. Everytime I sail the boat I learn something. I am consistently impressed by the boat’s performance for what it is and its response to adjustments in sail trim.
Regarding Don’s, Mark’s and Susan’s comments on using a second halyard (if you have one) instead of a topping lift.
My current boat came with that arrangement even though it’s a 26 rather than a 260, probably because its original mast was replaced by a carbon fiber one after being damaged in a race a few years ago. I suspect the new mast used the 260 design.
I personally don’t think the idea scales well above the N22 unless you’ve got extremely upgraded winches. Unless also made from carbon fiber, the weight of the boom goes up significantly in larger boats. You really need the purchase to be able to adjust things quickly.
Topping lift set-ups are easily designed to move with the swing of the boom, while halyards are IHMO more at risk of chafing.
My final problem with having to use my “spare halyard” as a topping lift is that it means it’s really only just a topping lift. If my halyard jams, or breaks, or I have to go up the mast for any reason at all, I can’t use the “spare halyard” for that job unless I’m in a position to completely drop the boom. The recommended safe way to go up a mast is with two lines, the main halyard and the spare. Also an issue that scales up with the size of the boat.
Lastly, I don’t think of Nonsuch as a cult. We do, in fact, happen to be better than everyone else because we own one. And we are, in fact, particularly brilliant as proven by the fact we chose to do so. But, that doesn’t make us a cult. Just particularly nice and special people. Not to mention modest and humble – far more modest and humble than anyone else around. IMHO.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
I agree completely with Bob. Just because I tend to howl at the moon, around a fire, bag on my head, on the 23rd day of every fifth month (winter and summer) with all of the other Toronto-area Nonsuch sailors does NOT make me a member of some weirded-out cult !!
Jeeez …
The nice thing about all of this is that, if you have a certain setup on your boat, yeh, go ahead and try anything that doesn’t obviously look dangerous or unwise - go for it. But, take the intentions of the well-informed designer (Mark Ellis) and the long-standing practices of almost all of the rest of us into consideration.
Our topping lifts work beautifully if one uses good line (that is the long enough), blocks that allow as much practical mechanical advantage as possible and if one eliminates as much friction as possible. This allows the sailor to (Naoto - take note, pls.) adjust the topping lift underway, if required, without using a winch, etc. by just pulling a line that is totally set up, waiting to be used.
Yes, sometimes we do play with the topping lift underway (though rarely). It is really handy to be able to adjust it a bit, easily, to get the boom out of the water when it’s a little rough out there or to put a bit more curvature in the sail when there is little wind.
If I had a spare halyard, it would remain a spare halyard (as it could end up being really useful).
What I also find is that new owners (I was one, too … ) tend to decide to change things “that don’t work well” (just like I did … honest !!) without analysing why these things “don’t work well”. Lousy, salt-encrusted old line never “works well”. Throw it out !! Today’s new lines are quite an improvement to products that are even 20 years old. Winches can be greased - that helps a lot. Blocks can be replaced (and new ones work WAY better than old crappy ones - and Garhauer, bless’em, sells and adapts blocks, etc. at a very reasonable cost). Folks, these are cheap fixes. New owners should let a bit of time go by before concluding that something “that doesn’t work well” should be replaced with a different system or a different philosophy.
Naoto - before I forget, the choker is there to flatten your sail - that simple. Got too much wind ?? Too much sail up ?? Before you reef, pull that choker good and tight and flatten that sail. Take the “drive” out of it. Still too much wind ?? Put in a reef. It’s a piece of cake on a Nonsuch and, many times, one also uses the topping lift in the process.
To conclude, I am glad that we are a brilliant and humble group.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Hi all
Dry interesting chat this one.
Anybody could put pictures of the rigging at the mast?
An cockpit?
Jean
NS30C
Berthierville
Envoyé de mon iPhone
Thank you Ernie
I will go buy a line that is long enough and install a block at the mast.
With Regards
NaotoSusanK 2 hull 291
Kennebunkport, ME
Jean,
For pictures of the rigging, take a look at pp. 15-28 of the New Nonsuch Owners Guide. You can find it by going to www.Nonsuch.org, clicking on the MEMBERS tab and selecting MANUALS from the pop-up menu. If you’re not already an INA member, you’ll have to join first, at https://www.nonsuch.org/join-us
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233