I can’t find the length for the wire topping lift for a c30. (#428 c30). Can some one please share that. I know it is. 7 19 wire. 2 eyes. Have the penant lenght too. Need to make a new topping lift. And don’t have the old one.
Steve foose.
Jules Verne. #428. C30
Boat in Grew turtel cay. Bahamas
Pittsfield Masj
Have you tried the owner’s manual, Steve??
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Hi Joe -
I just checked out the owner’s manual for the C 30 and, while I found mention of the wire T/L, I could not find any indication of the LENGTH of the wire.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Hi Steve
The wire length is 45 feet on a Nonsuch 30 . It is recommended to swage on a 3/16 marine eye coupled with a 3/8 toggle at the top end and a nico press eye at the bottom using 2 sleeves.
Cheers
Mike Quill
I’m curious whether Steve has considered replacing the stainless wire with Dyneema. And if so, why have you decided against it? I’m not advocating anything, just trying to learn. I recently replaced my boom hangers with Dyneema and the rigger strongly encouraged me to replace the topping lift soon and with Dyneema, too.
On the question of Dyneema, one of the members of our group said they had Dyneema for the standing part of the topping lift when they bought their boat. They found that when they were at anchor and the wind reached a certain velocity the Dyneema would start to vibrate and set up a loud humming noise which made sleep rather difficult.
There is probably not enough benefits with Dyneema to out weigh the downsides. Stainless wire will last much longer than Dyneema. The coated stainless is likely no harder on the sail than Dyneema. Dyneema is stronger so you could go with a smaller dia however it is subject to degradation due to UV. The UV attacks the outer layer of Dyneema so the smaller the dia the higher the percentage of the line that is compromised. This means you can’t go down much, if at all in size unless you plan to change the line very frequently. If the Dyneema and stainless are the same size there is no aerodynamic advantage to Dyneema. The difference is weight is probably too small to notice. Dyneema is easier for most people to work with. Most of us don’t have the necessary tools to work with stainless wire so must use a rigger while with a little effort we can all learn to put a locking Brummel eye splice in Dyneema. If you use Dyneema you must do regular inspection of the line at the top of the mast since it will be at risk of chafing.
The same pros and cons probably apply to the Dyneema vs coat stainless forex boom hangers.
Using Dyneema instead of polyester for the running tackle on the topping lift may be worth while. The Dyneema is very slippery and will slide along the boom with less friction. You can use a smaller dia, which will also reduce friction. Bare Dyneema does not work well in rope clutches so you might want to use covered Dyneema or even polyester line for the portion of the tackle running along the cabin top back to the cockpit.
As for length. My experience is that a little shorter on the standing part of the topping lift is better than a little longer. When Ed Botterell made a sail he would place the reef crinkles higher up on the leech of the sail to keep the boom higher in rough weather. I found that with the regular length of the standing part of the topping lift the two blocks on the tackle would hit before the boom was lifted high enough to put in the reef. I had to shorten the standing portion by 3 feet to solve the issue. I had 4:1 purchase on the tackle so when I shortened the standing portion by 3 feet I had to get a tackle line that was 12 feet longer.
Those are my thoughts. I could be wrong.
Mark Powers
Long ago (2012), in a far-off galaxy, just after I bought my NS 22, I had Mike Quill redo the mast joint. When the mast came back, it had been COMPLETELY (and beautifully) redone with all kinds of stuff thrown in (for really cheap or for free). One thing he did, was to replace the original boom hangers and standing topping lift with decidedly thicker cable than the originals. I don’t remember the size (thickness) of the new cable but it was visibly “over spec”.
In 11 years ownership, I never once worried about any of those lengths of covered steel cable letting go (for any reason). I mention this because, perhaps, Mike could let us know what gauge steel cable he truly thinks would be best for this application on an NS30C.
I think that Dyneema would certainly “do” for this purpose but steel cable would be far more appropriate - I’d be more confident knowing that th boom was held up by steel cable. I think Mark is right on, though, by suggesting a slightly shorter standing part of the T/L. A good idea IMHO.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Yes. Not in the one I have. Just wire spec.
Ernie
Covered wire such as was used for lifelines and topping lifts is no longer readily available/ manufactured due to the impossibility to see any detioration (rust etc) and thus possiblity of failure under strain Certainlyy use for lifelines is not acceptable
If one was to use wire as a topping lift then one would very quickly have a dirty look in sail - hence the use of dymeena or however you spell that very suitable “rope “ to use as a topping lift
Safe Sailings
Cedric
Single Malt 26C #207
Chester Nova Scotia
Hi Cedric -
I do not disagree with you. One cannot check the condition of the cable if it is covered. That said, it certainly is still sold. Here’s a link to Defender:
https://defender.com/en_us/suncor-white-coated-7x7-stainless-steel-lifeline-wire
Or West Marine:
https://www.westmarine.com/suncor-3-16inch-lifeline-wire-rope-7-x-7-5929658.html
Ernie A. in Toronto
I forgot to mention that my topping lift was PVC covered SS wire. It was on the boat for 11 years (and still is) and left no mark on anything. Granted, the boat is a fresh-water vessel.
Ernie A. in Toronto
I did something with my topping lift last March that at the time seemed to raise a little controversy. I removed it. I bought “Cheers” late Nov. 2022 and hauled it out early March 23. Everything went as well as could be and in removing the mast for inspection I found it to be in good shape with no problems, but time had not been good to the topping lift. Cable, blocks, lines and fittings all needed replacement,
I also discovered the mast had a double sheave top fitting in good shape. I fitted a new internal halyard. Nice to have a spare. That’s when the idea of using that halyard as the topping lift struck. A line run to the top seemed wasted if just cleated off and not working. I did this and eliminated the cable, the block tackle, the line that runs along the boom and back to the cockpit and the safety cable. A lot of stuff swinging with the boom on every tack or jibe.
We have sailed many miles in the Salish Sea with this set up and have had no problems. It can be led to the port side cabin top winch for sail trim and has its own stopper clutch. I can lower the boom with it. I can sew a mouse to it and run the whole halyard/topping lift for inspection with the boom down and resting.
No down side so far, but I will pull the mast again in May 2024 when I haul out for bottom paint etc.and inspect. A little controversial but I won’t be going back and if you have a double sheave mast top you might consider the option.
Don Mc
NS 22 #16 “CHEERS”
Puget Sound
Thank you all for your thoughts - recommendations - and sharing your personal Experiences
The Question is simple How long is it - Eye to Eye or to the pennant.
How I end up doing it ( replacing it - is a separate issue )
Can anyone give me that measurement - Ill gladly share what I do.
Thank You
Steve Foose
Jules Verne -c30 #428
Being Reborn In the Abacos Bahama (A Dorian Hurricane survivor - 200 mph winds - 2 days )
– Replaced the Engine ( used)
Sleeved the Mast (Yes Lower section 8 Ft - It can be done - Did it )
Re doing all the running rigining Now Need the Topping lift Length )-
Will be in the water Motoring and Sailing by End of January )
45 feet per Mike Quill in his noon response to this thread.
Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT
Thank you. Very much.
Curious, why would you respond and repeat with the info that Mike Quill already responded with?
I did that because Mike’s reply had apparently been overlooked by the guy asking the original question. Trying to be helpful.
Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT
Spending 18th day in Phuket Thailand hospital attending to my wife and bored.
I did not see Mike’s message. And it’s not in my junk or trash folders. So it apparently did not go out to everyone, for some reason. Maybe Steve didn’t see it, either?
I didn’t see it either. So the Repeat was not a repeat of info to me.
Again. Thank you.
Steve. Jules Verne
I saw Mike’s response. I changed mine from wire to Dyneema about 10 years ago and now worry that it may be deteriorating. If it does, I’ll go back to wire rope and worry less. I’ve found that when it does start to go bad stains show up on the cover and are easy to see.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA