I’m told that it’s normal for the Westerbeke 27A 1982 vintage transmissions to leak a little. I get a few drops (give or take) per hour when motoring. I believe it is coming from near the end of the transmission facing the bow. Normal or not?
David Godfrey
NS30 #145 Thursday’s Child
RNSYS Halifax Nova Scotia
Not for MagnifiCat David. I have a minor engine oil leak but nothing from the transmission.
Alan Steward
30C # 144 MagnifiCat
Bath, Ontario
David: Is that a “U” or a “C”? Does it have a “V” drive??
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
There re generally two locations of transmission leaks. The engine/transmission joint and the shift lever o ring. The Hurth 50 only has 0.3 of a litre of oil
The transmission lever o ring is an easy fix, you don’t even need to drain the oil. But the engine/transmission is more complex a job.
Hi Joe, It’s a classic. Let me know your thoughts on this as the go to mechanic on anything Nonsuch. Thanks
Thanks Thor, how would I tell the difference between the 2 possible leakage areas?
David,
I’m going to guess that you have a v-drive transmission ( the front of the engine, alternator end, faces the transom). That would most likely be a Hurth 150 V transmission.
Based on your description of “near the end of the transmission that faces the bow”, if it is a 150V, then the output shaft seal(s)are leaking. Mine did the same.
The fix is to:
Remove the transmission from the boat
Remove the bolts holding the two transmission halves together (make sure you get all the bolts undone)
Split the two halves with the shafts horizontal and the shift lever side up. The works will lay in the casing half that is laying on the work bench.
Press the gears, spacers and other parts off of the output shaft for the oil leak repair. Press everything off of the input shaft for friction disc replacement. There are spacers on both shafts. Read the transmission service instructions before transmission disassembly.
There is a wear sleeve on the output shaft upon which one of the output seals rides. This wear sleeve may have a slight groove worn into it by the seal. If you can see a fine groove worn into the sleeve, replace the sleeve when you replace all the seals in the transmission. Assembling the transmission with a grooved wear sleeve will lead to a leak not fixed.
A repair manual for the 150 V transmission can be found online.
A third party kit is available online containing friction discs, seals and gaskets
The wear sleeve is a separate part. If you replace this, check it’s length against the length of the existing sleeve. If there is a difference in length, shimming of the output shaft will need to be changed. If the new sleeve is longer than the old sleeve, rather than changing shims, a machine shop could grind the length of the new sleeve to match the old sleeve.
You will also need some special gasket maker to mate the two housing halves.
Parts will run $500-$600 USD.
If you have not taken mechanical stuff apart previously, you might not want to do this yourself.
ZF Transmissions of Italy bought Hurth. The exact transmission is available from ZF. The model is 15 MIV. If you buy a new transmission, you need one with the same gear ratio as the existing transmission. I bought one last year for $3,650 US plus freight from Trans Atlantic Diesel in Virginia. I ordered the transmission about 1/1 and received the transmission about 5/15. That was about two months later than originally indicated due apparently to Covid delays in Italy.
The new transmission was bought to go with a new Beta 35 engine in my boat.
You might want to keep an oil absorbent pad under the drip and live with it. (Inexpensive but leaks can be mentally bothersome.)
I now know a lot more about these transmissions than I did before I disassembled mine the first time.
Ward, thank you for the scary details. I was only looking for where I place the duct tape 
You are correct about the V-drive. If the issue is as you state and if there is no long term damage to living with the leak then the course of action might well be an absorbent pad and keeping an eye on the fluid level which I have been doing anyway. Is it ok to have a slight drip and live with it?
I’d love to take the transmissions apart to learn how to do it but would rather do it with someone else’s engine, not mine. My diesel engine mechanical skills are pretty much like a first year apprentice who is going to be expelled for poor marks.
Best regards, David
I agree that your best bet is to live with it, David.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
This sort of problem is rarely static, and will likely need to be addressed eventually. While dealing with a slight slow leak is relatively painless, as it worsens and begins to leak more, the result can quickly become a mess. We have had a similar experience with our Hurth V150 starting with a slow leak on the outboard seal, gradually worsening over the course of a few months as we deferred he repair till haulout. The rate of deterioration will likely depend on the part that is failing ie(a failing seal may deteriorate faster than a worn shaft). You may also want to investigate if the leak is caused by external factors such as alignment or a bent shaft.
When you decide to do the repair, it is far simpler with the boat out of the water. Removing the transmission was relatively easy with simple tools (assuming the bolts aren’t frozen). Doing the repair requires some advanced skills and equipment and should only be attempted if you have this kind of experience.
All the best with this
Bill Kroes. (Co-owned with Rob Collie)
NS36 #24
“Canatara” Sarnia, Ontario, Canada. (Southern Lake Huron)
.
I just removed my Hurth V-drive transmission 150, from my Nonsuch 30U. It was leaking from the forward end (towards the bow). Brought it to a highly recommended transmission specialist , Nopper Marine in Fairhaven, MA.
They will essential do a complete overhaul of the transmission, replacing all the seals, gaskets and small parts. Total cost parts and labor will be about $1,500. I could have opted to just have the one leaking seal replaced but I don’t want to have to pull the transmission ever again so to me it is worth having everything replaced now. Our very talented local marine mechanic deferred working in it . Can be very complicated.
Lloyd McDonald
You know Bill, when I look at all the “little” things I’ve had to do and will have to do on the boat I can see why a boat is put on the market as was this one. Anyway, I was starting to like the “live with it” answer but your reply makes a lot of sense too. I wish I had done a measure of the leak from when it was put in the water (I bought the boat on the hard in March) to when I took it out. I don’t think it was a lot but…
David
Hi David,
mine is a Nonsuch 30 U, 430, Westerbeke 27A with Hurth 150 V Drive -
2 years ago I had my transmission pulled and took it to a very reputable marine transmission repair person here in New Jersey. He rebuilt the entire transmission, even exchanging the case. The trans was 33 years old at the time, and after the rebuild he said it was going to fail at some point in the near future, when I probably needed it most. The reason I had taken it to him was I was having trouble when engaging reverse. I documented the episode on the discussion group (something like ‘Trouble with Reverse’). Unfortunately, the rebuild did not solve the issue - turns out it was an issue with my Kiwiprop being fouled and having a hard time flipping the blades into reverse (I fixed this, and documented it for the group too).
Prior to the transmission rebuild I was having a bit of transmission fluid leakage at the shift arm, but chose to keep an eye on it as it was a slight leak. This was corrected when the trans was rebuilt.
About a year or so after the rebuild, I noticed some transmission fluid drips under the prop shaft, where it enters the transmission, in the catch pan I have to collect stuffing box drips.
I was concerned about this this season, as it was still dripping a little, and we were doing a 5 week sail up to Kennebunkport Maine and back. I informed the transmission repair person of the situation, and he said not to worry, keep an eye on it, and top it off when the level drops a bit. This worked fine for the trip, but it shouldn’t be dripping at all. The transmission repair guy actually came up to my marina to check out the situation (he normally doesn’t travel far from his home base), tightened up the case a bit, and we kept an eye on it… still dripping.
So last week, I pulled the transmission out myself (wasn’t hard to do - a bit easier I would guess with two people - but I managed) and took it back down to the transmission shop. It dripped while sitting overnight on his bench, before being pressurized, but apparently the drip is on the opposite side of what we thought… not sure what that means exactly, but we will find out. The problem is being corrected under warranty - thought technically the 2 years have now passed, he said because the drip appeared while still under his warranty he would make it right.
I will post the pulling of the transmission, hopefully soon, so you may see that it is not very complicated. Of course it depends on your comfort level to do something like this, or if your repair person is nearby and it is part of his service.
Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30U 430
Jersey City, NJ
Peter, thank you so much for pictures and the background on your transmission. With the pictures I see what I’m not able to see in my dark and hose/wire infested engine compartment. I’m guessing that the picture on the left shows where the shift arm attaches on the left of the transmission. I’ll take a closer look this week with some flood lights to help see if there is a trail from where the drip coming from. I’m looking forward to hearing more about the saga of your transmission.
Cheers, David
We too have had tranny leaks in our 30 U, w/ Westerbeke 27A and Hurth 150 V Drive lubricated with AT fluid, that are persistent despite full rebuilds (just three). Years ago we had a leak at the (I believe it is called) lip seal - where the shifter enters the tranny. That was easily fixed without removing the tranny or the fluid. We have since done three full rebuilds due to other leaks. The last rebuild was most likely at the reputable New Jersey shop that Peter took his tranny to. The tranny currently leaks at the forward end. We are in discussions with the yard about what to do and have even volunteered to drive our tranny to New Jersey to drop it off (and suspect that if I do that, I will may others in the car as well). No idea what this is all costing as the yard has not billed us for any of the work since the first rebuild 5 - 6 years ago. Last time around, we did a new coupler and refaced everything, all for naught.
Our leak is bad enough that a diaper under the tranny will turn red in a couple of weeks. It drips whether the boat is used or not.
It drives me nuts and I always worry about AT fluid getting pumped overboard.
I know, Mike G, “if you converted to electric . . . .”
lloyd herman
Rendezvous, 30U
Port Washington, NY
I’ll pitch here re transmission leaks… I got shift lever seals from the Hurth Master Dealer in Eastern Canada, they leaked like fury. Clearly out of spec. Finally got some from Maryville Marine, gray not yellow and they were fine…
So check the seals, they could be from a bad lot…
On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 11:28:01 AM UTC-8 Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous wrote:
Lloyd,
If the drip is at the output end, you may need the wear sleeve. I paid $250 plus freight for one last year.
In any event, whatever seal is leaking has likely worn a slight groove in the surface it is trying to seal. That surface may need repair or replacement to fix the leak.
Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT
