While using a hole saw today to install an anchor windlass I discovered that my foredeck plywood core was moist. I think that I see the culprit…one of the bolts for the bow pulpit (see picture). I did some tapping and there does not seem to be any de-lamination. Aside from re-bedding the pulpit, I am thinking that I need a way for the core to dry out. So I was thinking of drilling some holes in the fiberglass on the underside of the deck which is in the anchor locker.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Jerome Bertuglia
Purr Diem NS 30C #269
Stonington, CT
There are several types of wood used as core in the foredeck. The area where the pulpit stanchion base is mounted could be plywood, but it can also be balsa wood. The area, where a windlass is supposed to go should be cored with ply. The area around the mast is cored with ply. More to the sides is balsa.
A while ago, before I started working on my N36, I found N30 core repair pictures on the internet and saved them. They show a repair made to a N30. Unfortunately, I can’t remember who’s boat it was or what she was named. So forgive me in advance for posting a picture that isn’t mine. I can’t show you a picture that I actually took of an open foredeck, because I did not replace core in that area.
I do not think that it’s wise to drill holes. A wet core can still last a considerable length of time without being rotten. When oxygen is allowed in the area, it could accelerate the decline. Above that, the holes drilled are going to make the final repair more difficult. This repair involves opening up the foredeck and replacing the core (using the inner laminate as the base for the new core).
I had to have the foredeck triangle recored, etc. on my NS22. It came to around 10 sq. ft. of deck. Obviously, your boat is bigger but we have no real idea of the affected deck. This adventure occurred a few years ago. It was leaking via a few of the bolts that were close to the mast collar that support the smaller bulkheads that encase the mast, the anchor chain, etc. Also, as Mark points out, there was some leaking happening at the bolts that actually held the mast collar.
The wooden core on my boat was FIR plywood. The entire hull is fibreglass (thank heaven) on an NS22 and an NS26. According to the guy who did a first rate job (it only took 11 months … and cost me a fortune), he had a murderous job grinding all of that plywood out. The factory used a lot of FIR as it can take being waterlogged for years, without disintegrating, according to a local who used to work at the factory. He advised drilling a bunch of holes UP from underneath, into the core, and jamming in some fabric to “wick out” the moisture. This, in my opinion, is a great idea for someone who wants to spend the next few years dealing with this issue. I don’t think you do. I sure didn’t.
I’ve tried to attach some photos of the mess that I dealt with. In the end, she’s now rock solid. I would have been as capable of doing this job (which can be somewhat common on Nonsuches as owners won’t even contemplate that area, under loads of stress, being soft) as removing the engine and tranny on my 2022 Subaru, in my parking spot at the front of my house - NO chance.
One of the photos mentions discoloration - those grey-ish patches showing on the deck were the tell-tale evidence of wet core - there were no soft patches whatsoever.
My suggestion, I’m afraid, is to have a trusted shop take a look at things and then, have a chat. You don’t want to do this job twice (or more) cuz the first attemp didn’t quite work out.
One simple way is to remove the pulpit stanchion base, drill a hole as large as possible but stay within the base dimension so that the work is hidden. Then scour out the core as far as possible. Fill with epoxy and re-drill.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
My only concern would be to make sure that all of the wet core was removed and the area totally dried out. It might be tricky to just remove the core from under the stanchion bases and “hope” you get it all out, if that’s what you mean, Joe. IF (and it’s possible) the only really wet area is under that one base, that’s great. Otherwise, you’ll end up repairing an area that is right next to another area that is all wet. The foredecks of Nonsuches do tend to have this problem.
What about getting a good surveyor in with a trusty moisture meter (and good ears and a hammer and lots of experience) and, short of an xray, really finding out what’s going on ?? To me, we are just dancing around the issue and guessing. The cost of a surveyor for just an area check (not the whole deck) may render lots of “renovation” unneeded and is, likely, money well-spent.
Heck, maybe it is just one spot ?? You never know.
What I found on my boat, Ernie, is that if it’s more then just under the stanchion, it’s very apparent. You can make a big hole and gain a lot of access from that hole.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Jerome told us that he discovered moist when he drilled a hole to install a windlass. I don’t think the wet area is limited to a stanchion base.
Again, drilling many holes to “dry out” such a structural and important part of a Nonsuch, is a bad idea IMHO for a number of reasons.
To approach this from another angle, say this Nonsuch came on the used boat market. I think that a Nonsuch with 50+ holes in her foredeck (from underneath) is unsellable. opposite to that, I wouldn’t be scared of a Nonsuch with a wet foredeck as long as nobody with a powerdrill messed things up, and the problem can still be fixed the right way.
And, for that matter, I think that powerdrills should only be sold to boatowners with a licence to drill
I removed a wet spot under pulpit but removed the underside in the anchor locker. It had spread and I removed and replaced a Sq foot. Saved all the cosmetic deck work…
I realize that no online expert wants to open this bag for liability reasons but I’m just another owner so I will venture my opinion.
does anyone have credible evidence of a deck failing because the plywood core was damp or even wet but not delaminated or rotting?
is your deck soft or obviously suffering from the current condition?
are you planning to stress the deck in excess of what it has been subjected to in the past?
What I’m getting at is that maybe we are looking for trouble and expensive repair where none exists. Rot is an issue, no question, but plywood will last a very long time wet before it fails from the moisture alone. If there is no rot present near the entry point there should not be elsewhere as the ‘glass layers prevent oxygen entry and if we seal off the entry point with the overdrill/epoxy/redrill technique none can enter there either.
If you have rot, try hole saws of increasing size from below, just through the inner skin and core to assess the damage. If you get it all that way, repair with epoxy. If not then you know you have a problem that really does require the “major” project.
We used a different approach to some wet core on our boat. The surveyor found several smallish areas that were wet, although they turned out to be larger than the meter suggested. What we did was drill many, many 1” holes through top layer of the deck. We had a little hook tool and the length of this tool controlled how far apart the holes were. We kept drilling holes outward from the known bad area until we got into good balsa. With the hook and a shop vac we created an open space between the two f/g layers. We filled this with WEST epoxy filled with 403 microfibres. For the top layer we used 407 filler which is easier to sand. The only problem is on a sloping surface where the fill will come out of the lower holes, so you need to do this in stages. Once the fills were done, we faired the deck and painted with smooth and no-skid paint.
Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and valuable experience…it is much appreciated.
I have decided to find a good surveyor and perhaps someone who does this type of repair work for a living and get their feedback. Obviously I will need to find someone before the mast gets stepped, which I imagine is going to be a challenge this time of year.
I will report back with the results
Jerome Bertuglia
Purr Diem NS 30C #269
Stonington, CT
I bring up one more point that I don’t believe has been mentioned in this discussion. The fordeck is an integral part of the designed structure that not only holds up the cantilevered mast but also is designed to transfer the load from the sail through the mast to the boat. Everything done around the mast area has to take this into consideration. I would guess that the greatest load point on the boat is at the mast collar which depends on the foredeck and its connection to the hull and bulkheads, to form a kinda box structure which transfers load to the boat and makes it go forward.
It is important to consider the loads this area transfers into the boat, with any work done in this area.
I replaced my foredeck along with half the gunnel on the starboard side of my 26C a couple of years ago. It is a long job that requires a tremendous amount of labor but if you do it yourself it can be very satisfying. My deck had 3/4 ply around the mast and 3/8 inch core under the remainder of the deck. I ended up laying down a new deck but I understand it is possible to reuse the deck skin if you can peel it off in large enough pieces.
Feel free to contact me if you want to discuss this project.
