Hi there.
Is anyone using a Raymarine auto pilot model T70152 for a wheel? I’m considering buying one and would like to hear comments, tips, etc.,
Dorothy Salusbury
Cathartic Nonsuch 30
Ashbridge’s Bay Yacht Club
Toronto Canada
Please be aware of the difficulty of getting Ray Marine materials to communicate with other brands. It can be a real headache.
SeaHorse
NS26C
I’ve had Raymarine autopilots on four different boats and was happy with two when new, but not with how they held up over time.
In every case, after a few years I noticed that they became more prone to veering off-course without warning.
Joe’s right about difficulties getting Raymarine equipment to play nicely with other brands. I’ve also found that, because they’ve bought a number of companies and slapped the Raymarine label on the products without integrating them, you can’t count on Raymarine-branded products all even working well with each other.
I’ve also been disappointed in other ways.
As I’ve groused about before in previous discussion threads, the older models would steer to wind angle if you simultaneously pressed the Standby and Autopilot buttons. The last one I bought didn’t support this feature, even though its manual claims it does. The reason I know it was no longer supported was that their Customer Support service told me so in those exact words – but only after six weeks of working through their system trying to figure out what was wrong.
I used to be loyal to Raymarine, and I’m unfortunately not very familiar with other brands. But when I get around to replacing the equipment on my boat, I’ll be shopping around among every brand other than them.
If you do go with Raymarine, make sure your supplier gives you the P70s control head for sailboats rather than the P70Rs control head for powerboats. Not every supplier is reliable about making sure you get the one that works for you. For example, when I put your exact words, “Raymarine auto pilot model T70152” into a search engine, the first hit that came up was for an Amazon seller who promises a “P70 control head” without being clear about which one you’d be getting.
Sorry to offer only negativity, but I’m sure others in the group can help with positive alternatives.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
I love my CPT. It doesn’t do the jig or any other fancy technology, but is extremely reliable, simple to operate, and easy to change the belt. I am a Luddite so I like to keep it simple and focus on the sailing part of sailing.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
Thanks Ron, too bad it won’t do the jig!
Dorothy
Cathartic NS30
Ashbridge’s Bay YC
Toronto
Thank you Ron, appreciate your advice,
Dorothy Salusbury
Cathartic NS30
ABYC
Toronto
Hi Joe,
Thank you for the heads-up. The other instruments on the boat are Raymarine so I hope this won’t be an issue.
Dorothy Salusbury
Cathartic NS30
ABYC
Toronto
I agree with Bob I have all Raymarine and wanted to add an AIS transceiver. I called the support number gave them the serial numbers, software versions and models of my equipment and asked them which one was supported.
They gave me the model and I purchased it that is when the fun began.
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My chart plotter had the wrong version of the software even though I told them what version I had. I had to buy 2 SD cards one to save everything on the chart plotter and another one to load the updated software.
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Took 3 tries to get the software loaded and since it was the terminal version of the software for my chart plotter, they would not provide any support.
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Then they tell me you are using the NMEA 0183 for the fast compass on the auto pilot that has to go into the chart plotter also the AIS fast side also has to go in the chart plotter using the NEMA 0183.
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The chart plotter only has 1 NMEA 0183 port so I call them back now I need a NEMA 0183 Mux which they do not sell or recommend.
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At this point I escalated up the service support chain because I thought naively, I checked everything beforehand with them.
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Now I get told that my stuff is getting older, and I should really look at replacing it all then the AIS support would be easier!!!
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They can’t recommend how I should wire things up, just sent me example wiring diagrams with a caveat about yours maybe be different.
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After a bunch of web surfing and reading a whole lota about NEMA 0183 protocol and the sentences used by AIS and auto-pilots I was able to get it all wired up and working.
These guys were very helpful and make the NEMA 0183 MUX I ended up using.
Yacht Devices U.S. – Yacht Devices U.S. LLC (yachtdevicesus.com)
Peter Farley
Knot in a Hurry u30 #328
Keyport NJ
This sounds chaotic. Has anyone had experience with B&G? Are they any better? They are being touted by a boat electronics guy that I talked to as more sailboat oriented. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that they won’t cause similar chaos.
For what it’s worth, I have a very mixed but current NMEA 2000 system that includes a B&G WS-310 Wind Sensor (2021), Garmin 943sx Chartplotter (2021) and Raymarine Evolution EV-200 Autopilot (2012) driving an under deck hydraulic ram (1995). (It’s actually a lot more complicated than that because I love fooling with electronics, but those are the main elements.)
Very happy with the performance of each element and works fabulously together.
I think the key is relatively modern kit and NMEA 2000. Unfortunately, NMEA 0183 is very slow, very long in the tooth (kind of like using a Windows NT or 2000 machine today!) and notorious for lack of inter-operability between manufacturers.
Like the personal computer and cell phone worlds, the newer stuff really does play better together…
Michael Jabara
Hobbes II 1995 NS 354
San Rafael, California
The older Autohelm / Raymarine wheel mounted units needed a rudder sensor which was an option at the time. Without it they were prone to sudden course changes. I once had a 90 degree swerve motoring in flat calm water prior to adding the rudder sensor. Wheel units are useful for motoring nothing else, maybe under sail in benign conditions or raising / lowering the sail signal handed.
The hydraulic arm ones are much more robust but expensive.
I have a 4000st with a rudder sensor, great for motoring..
I’ve always had good luck with the Raymarine 3000 models on several boats and on deliveries. I’ve found the 4000 models tended to have minds of their own. My current 3000 is well over 20 years old and still going strong whether motoring or sailing.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
I made concession to technology when I accepted GPS as my principle navigation tool as it provides instant information and provides more time for sailing as opposed to plotting navigation on paper charts. From my personal perspective, more gadgetry doesn’t necessarily equate to more enjoyment of sailing. Not to mention the fact that the marine electronics industry has been drawing us further from the basics in their pursuit of greater profit by means of planned obsolescence and marketing these expensive electronics as necessary to our sport. I once read a piece about how we have been progressing from sailing our boats to managing them. For me that was a reality check - do I really need all the devices to tell me what I should already know, and should I invest my boat bucks in something that will give me more maintenance than I already have for the basic boat, not to mention the dependance upon vs. reliability ratio. I am picky about who I invite to sail with me and I apply the same metrics to the equipment I have aboard. The above ideas are the same ones that I used in selecting CPT for my autopilot. It never fails me when needed, it will not become obsolete in my lifetime, and should it ever need service beyond a belt change the folks at CPT will gladly support and service the unit.
This is of course my personal perspective, and what I have witnessed fellow sailors struggling with the same issues as mentioned previously. If you are a gadget kind of person, then please don’t discount my opinion, and don’t ask my help when all that fancy stuff fails in a time of need.
Now back to you Tristan.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
I tend to tip into the same camp as Ron. I have a stand alone Garmin GPS, a Samung Tablet with Aqua Maps, a pile of paper charts. a sextant and steam era wind and depth. Nothing is interconnected. If one fails the others survive.
SOG, VMG, all that good stuff is useful, but you are sailing after all… and I know of more than few sailors who have bumped into things while staring at a screen… or letting Auto run the show.
Last time I took a sun shot we had travelled 135 miles in 2 hours… not bad for a 26
Thor - No worries I’m sure that sun shot error was due to Daylight Savings Time. Of course, if you’d had an Apple Watch!!! LOL
P.S. I do use my auto pilot, but still keep a vigilant watch. I was once almost run down by a sailboat under power that had three people visible on deck which I mistook as a proper watch. After a near collision it was revealed that those on deck were passengers who didn’t understand the situation to alert the skipper who was below deck at the time.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda
For instrument connections:
First era: Human eyeballs, supplemented with pencil and paper if required.
Second era: closed systems specific to a manufacturer. For instance, Raymarines first Seatalk, slow and not a lot of data throughput, but it works. I see things electrically wise that date back to the 70’s or early 80’s. quaint!
Third era: NMEA-0183. A standard that was not complete. Voltage levels, and the need for an upgraded speed, and of course it is “one transmitter, many receivers” which is great, until you need two or more transmitters. Not an open standard, but if you joined NMEA at least you could get the specs.
Fourth era: NMEA-2000. Sounds like it’s 20 plus years old now. Uses CAN as a base, and added packet types. All cars now have a CAN network in them, as do planes and likely trains. And industrial robotics and model railway stuff from Zimo, in Europe. And so on. Has issues with company private packet types, such as the ole chestnut “software update”. It also is slow, no streaming video, for instance.
Fifth era: “One Net” if I remember the acronym correctly. Basically, what your house or office is wired like. I was a very small part of the decision process, (focus on the very) but my timeframe was pre 1996. Took a while to get it out and running reliably, so maybe put a date of 2010 on it, if you wish. It’s IPV6, so good for NMEA, can support streaming video, from radars, fish finders, backup cameras, etc. it will take years to come about, so don’t hold your breath. Hopefully it will support software updates, etc. (hope someone from NMEA is reading this)
Me? I installed NMEA-2000, with one custom Seatalk to NMEA-2000 gateway.
JohnS
NS26C 046 bath on.
I think we’re wandering a bit off of Dorothy Salusbury’s original question.
I’m curious: so far, we have multiple mixed reports on experience with Raymarine and only a recommendation for CPT as an alternative.
Anyone using anything else, and how’s it working for them?
Dorothy, how important for what you do is it to have instrument integration? And what do you expect to use it for?
In my case, I use it primarily to keep the boat on a course while I’m busy raising/lowering the sail when singlehanding. Based on my experiences, I don’t trust my Raymarine for even that unless I’m far from other boats or the shoreline.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
Hi Bob,
Compatibility with other instruments is not overly important-I don’t have GPS and don’t anticipate buying a system.
When we had a boat with a tiller we used a Raymarine auto helm a lot, for day cruising or for a one or two week trip.
I was thinking of buying the auto helm for the same purpose but it’s highly unlikely I’ll be sailing on my own. So I thought it would come in handy on a long sail when I or whatever mate I had got tired of helming.
But based on all the comments about not trusting the device, I am re-considering. It’s a lot of money to spend for something that may be of questionable use.
Dorothy
Cathartic NS 30
ABYC
Toronto
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I use mine when raising and lowering the sail and motoring back to the slip.
Last year, I had a 12-hour solo run up the Chesapeake Bay with no wind. Otto drove the entire way while I stood watch for crab pots.
So he does have his benefits.
Joe
NS26C
SEA HORSE
Great discussion . The one thing I enjoy is there is not a right answer, there are many.
I am curious , how many of us have “swung the compass” recently. That round thing in front of you…