The discussion regarding Lazarette vents covers was starting to get hijacked by discussions of enclosures so I thought I would start a new chain.
John Waldhausen,
I see you have a 36 and Ernie I believe you have a 22 so the measurements from La Reina won’t be much help (if you are interested I can provide them to you when I get back from the next cruise).
When designing the enclosure I waited for a calm day and then let of the topping lift so that the weight of the boom was carried by the pigtail. I then let off the topping lift and measured the height of the boom above the coaming at the back of the cockpit. The pigtail is set up so that it is long enough to allow full shaping of the sail, that is, the topping lift is completely slack when the sail is up but if the sail is down the pigtail will keep the boom above my head. I felt this would give me a fair idea of the boom height during a tack. I am 5’8" tall so I used 6’ for the height of the top of the enclosure. This gave me enough head room and still gave a comfortable distance between the boom and the top of the enclosure. When sailing the sail is always outside the enclosure except during a tack or gybe so clearance is not an issue. When motoring I lift the boom up on the topping lift. On occasion when motor sailing or when raising or dropping the sail in rough seas the boom has contacted the back arch. In rough conditions if I am motor sailing I will bear off so the boom can be sheeted outside of the arch thereby reducing the change of contact.
I had a double arch made for the back, similar to the arches on some Hunters. When I first had the boat there was not a pigtail on the topping lift so if it was let off without the sail up the boom would come all the way down to the helm. While I was motoring back into the marina after a sail I ask one of the crew to realize the reef line (the sail was already down). He let off the topping lift. The boom caught me on the shoulder on its way down. It hurt enough that I suspect had it hit my head I would not be typing this email. My plan was to ensure the back arch was strong enough to prevent such an occurrence in the future. The double arch let me use smaller diameter tubing while still having sufficient strength.
The arch legs are curved so that the mainsheet does not bend around the legs very much even when sailing dead down wind. They are set up so that I can swing a winch handle 360 degrees and can use the jam cleat. The double arch was expensive and the maker said he still lost money making it. If I were doing it again I would use a single arch but add two support struts at the back of the coaming on either side of the helm station. They would be a bit more then shoulder width apart. I think that would add enough strength to the arch, it would help keep the mainsheet away from anyone on the helm during a gybe or tack and would be less costly then a double arch. I think some other enclosures are built that way.
The back of the enclosure has one centre panel and two corner panels. I take the corner panels out when sailing. If it is cold I leave the centre panel down otherwise I roll it up. I tack around rather then gyble when the panel is down.
I have attached a couple more pictures. One shows getting ready to measure for head room (this was taken before I moved the mainsheet), the next shows the arch, then the arch with the bimini and finally the full enclosure (if I have properly attached them). The blue canvass on the mainsheet covers a snubber I was using to take some of the thump out of tacks.
P.S.
The final version of the bimini has a clear panel in it so I can see the sail for trimming while sailing. The panel is as big as I could get the canvas maker to make it so it extends most of the way across the bimini. The canvass maker makes a cover for the entire dodger to protect the windows rather then separate covers for each window so it protect the canvas of the dodger as well as the windows. I also have another piece of canvas that I put over the bimini on hot days when we are at anchor or when we leave the boat for a while. Both of these have kept the canvass looking good and will be cheaper to replace then the dodger or bimini.
To all those contemplating new bimini/dodger, enclosures: Consider my style. It came with the boat and as I’ve stated many times in the past, I’ve found it to be the best I’ve ever come across. I deliver boats and get a chance to see many different types. Two local boats, a NS30 and a 26 emulated this and were very happy. It is a one piece bimini with the ability to zip in a dodger or full enclosure. It has a little over six feet headroom and does not interfere with the wishbone. It grants easy access to the cockpit, unlike others I’ve come across plus, in warmer climes it is completely open forward as opposed to the usual dodger style with the center window that rolls up. In addition, when racing, I can remove the cloth in less then five minutes and replace it in about 8. Enclosed are some photos.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Joe, I think the key to your design is that boom extension. It’s a shame they are not still available, as that would some a number of minor annoyances on our boat.
I’ve been researching a new dodger/bimini/enclosure and seen a lot of different styles. One think I like about our present setup is the bimini frame is mounted on a track. When the canvas is removed the frame stores flat on the deck and behind the coaming. I believe the original owner did a lot of racking, so this makes sense from that perspective. It’s also nice for those days when we drop the bimini with canvas rigged, giving us a nice open cockpit. It’s one of the features we will keep in our new setup.
Carol Thorsten-Stein
Might as Well 30U 292
Nahant, MA
Carol: My boat came without the extension and it was something I had to pay attention to, but not a big deal. For what it’s worth, I know a yard here that could probably fabricate one using mine as a template.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Thank-you for sharing these photos, especially your bimini. Just curious if you thought about moving the aft end of the dodger forward to increase access to the cockpit. I haven’t seen a more airy full enclosure on a 26, but it does look a little busy on the starboard side. Very much looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Mark,
The dodger was on La Reina when we got her. It came far enough back that two people to a side could shelter out of the rain if they sat close. When we had the enclosure added we did not want to change that. We generally enter and exit the cockpit from the port side. Prop walk in reverse is to the port so we usually have and ask for a port tie when at marinas. So we enter and leave the cockpit on the port when coming into or leaving the dock. We do not have a problem with access on the port side. We enter and exit leading with our head then leg and arm. The winch makes access from the starboard a bit more difficult.
So short answer is we do not have plans or any thoughts of changing the size of the dodger. If the canvas ever needs changing we would have less canvas and more window along the bottom all around and would have the sides of the top of the dodger cut higher all with the intention of giving better sight lines.
If you are going to be in Vancouver sometime give me a call and you can come down to the boat to see how it works.
Tim,
On La Reina we can sail with the side curtains and the centre panel at the back in place. The dodger is always up except on hot days when we drop the centre panel. We take the back corners of the enclosure out to sail so that the sheet does not drag across them when we are on a deep reach. Some people with similar designs will leave the corners in place but unsnap the bottoms so that the panel will bend in if the sheet hits them. I know one fellow who did that on his 33. One day he forgot to unsnap the bottom and the sheet burned the plastic windows. It might be possible to have a protective leather patch sewn to the corner windows so they could be left in place without risk of damage. Even with the corners out the cockpit seems warm enough for us even in the winter.
I don’t like to put the sail away wet so avoid sailing in the rain. When it is raining we motor. When motoring the entire enclosure is up and we are dry and warm.
Some of the enclosures I have seen have the rear arch attach to the pulpit rather then the coating. The mainsheet is lead outside of the frame. The corner and side panels drop from the top of the enclosure to the coaming and are therefore protected from the sheet. On that style the corners can safely be left in while sailing. I thought that access around the stern of the boat would be better with the rear arch attached to the coaming so went that route.
I looked at pictures of every enclosure on any sized Nonsuch that I could find before I designed our enclosure.
Anyone considering a dodger or bimini, or any canvas for that matter should insist on the manufacturer using Gore Tex Tenara tread. Poly thread commonly used will last half a dozen seasons and start to dissolve from UV exposure years before the canvas. Not cheap but well worth it
As well we find we have to re treat the canvas every two years with water replant. Fabric Guard is what we use, takes a qt. Our Dodger is new but the bimini is from 1999.
Also recommend strat glass for the dodger panels, much better uv resistance.
Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 11:09:06 PM UTC-7, Mark Powers wrote:
