Bob - Thanks for your thoughts on drilling the rudder post support. I was concerned about the same thing. I think I will probably go with the conduit idea. I was concerned about loose cables fouling the steering, but a conduit would take care of that problem.
Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
That looks like a very neat install, Mike. I just have such an aversion to making new holes in the hull or deck that the thought of going up the pedestal seems worth the work. That being said, a while ago I did make a new hole underneath the pedestal guard rail to run power for my chartplotter through the tubing. I don’t think I let the epoxy I filled the hole with cure long enough before I drilled it out, though, and now I think I have epoxied the wire in place.
I probably need get over my phobia about new holes and focus on making them tidy and watertight like yours.
Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
Tim
Something you might want to consider in your plans is that while the wires may be able to run through the pedestal the connector may not. Which will require rewiring the connector after running the wire. The PVC tube I used as a conduit had enough space to run the motor control wire with the connector. As well as other wires I needed at the helm. I’m glad I went this route as the install was so much easier especially as I get older. 
Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island
You are right Mike, we did have to cut the wires and reattach, but that was easy to do. Sometimes you get stuck on an idea and you just have to follow through, I’m glad I did, but next time I will go the easier route.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Hi Tim,
We had a similar leak in our old Westerbeke 21. The engine room looked like yours.
We used something called Oil Lift available in Canada. Should be in the U.S. as well.
Non toxic, cleans up with water, does not damage paint or gelcoat or your skin.
Great for oil spills anywhere on the boat.
Rob Powers
Respite 26C #50 1982
Sidney BC
Tim,
One way to make a hole and protect the deck is to drill it a bit oversize, gouge out a bit of the core between the two fiberglass outer layers, and fill that gouged area with epoxy so that you end up with a smooth bore hole that presents epoxy all around to the outside world. That lets you change cables later more easily.
Then bed whatever fitting you put over that in your choice of caulking (I prefer Bed-It butyl tape myself, https://bed-it.com/). Mike’s repurposed fill fitting is one approach. I prefer Blue Seas cable clams myself, https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/23/Cable_Clams.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Bob,
Thanks again for the details of your installation. I am considering 2 X 50AH 48 volt batteries as adequate (and affordable) for my installation. What charger are you using for your system - 12 or 48 volt.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
Ron,
I’m using the Delta-Q IC 1200 48Vdc 25A charger that ElectricYacht recommended for my installation. I think if you’ve got 48V batteries, you need a 48V charger, although I could be wrong.
– Bob
Tim (White O’morn): Did you replace the chain and wire on your pedestal while you had it cracked open? Mine is almost certainly original, and even though a close visual inspection of the cable and sheaves shows them looking very good, they were installed in the early 1980s. The boat has been freshwater its whole life (Great Lakes), and appears to have been relatively lightly used, but Edson’s product videos have me a bit worried about “invisible stress cracks” in the chain.
Tim Cordes
Nonsuch 26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
. . .“invisible stress cracks” . . . . Man I wish you hadn’t said that. Now I probably won’t sleep tonight. No, we did not replace the chain, it looked like new. I will have to go through the PO’s collection of receipts. I hope he did replace it. Maybe it’s time to practice with the Emergency Tiller.
Seriously though, thanks for pointing that out. For anyone else contemplating the switch that should be added to the checklist.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Speaking of the emergency tiller, you might want to ensure it fits properly on the top of the rudder shaft. Mine was a little tight and would only go on about ¼ of the way. I enlarged the square hole on the tiller a little with a metal file… fits fine now.
Don
’87 NS30U #369 - Breezin’
Vancouver, BC
Speaking of the emergency tiller, you might want to ensure it fits properly on the top of the rudder shaft. Mine was a little tight and would only go on about ¼ of the way. I enlarged the square hole on the tiller a little with a metal file… fits fine now.
Don
’87 NS30U #369 - Breezin’
Vancouver, BC
Re fit of the emergency tiller – as originally produced, I believe I read somewhere that the hole in it which fits over the rudder post was ever-so-slightly tapered. Try flipping it over first before breaking out the files.
Ron, I’m not sure I understand your post. I’m not sure what saying you’re getting a 5 kW motor means. It sounds like you’re ordering the ElectricYacht QT10, since that’s what they sell as their 10kW offering. It runs on 48V power. The Amperage Hours (AH) of the batteries refer to their capacity, that is, how long they take to drain (1 hour drawing 100 Amps or 100 hours drawing 1 Amp). I don’t think a the AH rating of your battery bank reduces the motor’s power, just how long you can run it at a given speed. How much a 10kW motor draws depends only on what speed you’re running it.
Adding more batteries later increase your range, but you should have all the power you need from the get-go.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
It’s a good idea to check the emergency tiller. When I checked mine it was an adjustable wrench frozen at the wrong width and jammed into a plastic tube that was too long to go between the tiller stock and the wheel.
It could never have worked anyway because the angle of the wrench was wrong for the square on the stock.
Now, I really need to get mine out of the trunk and onto the boat.
Mike Jennings.
NSC5 Chancy (I’ll say)
Port Moody, BC.
Hi Bob,
I share the same thoughts, however the rep for Electric Yacht stated that the 5KW and 10KW are the same motor - and they are the same price. 200AH is recommended for the 10KW and according to him the higher power consumption of the 10KW would be harmful to a 100AH battery so the controller is programed for 5KW max power. When an additional 100AH capacity is added then the max of 10KW power usage and/or extended range is achieved. So that’s what I was told. True or not I plan to use two 48volt 50AH batteries and carry a back up generator in case I should ever need it. It may be a ploy to sell me more of their merchandise, but I plan to purchase the batteries from Renogy at almost half the price of the Dakota 100AH single battery they offer. I’m not sure I could even handle the 77 pound weight of the Dakota battery to install it in the confined space of the N22 engine compartment. All my comparison research indicates that the Renogy batteries are at least equal to the Dakota battery and I’ve had good experience with their other products so I am comfortable with that choice. The 5KW motor is rated as the correct size for my boat so either way it should be OK, I’ll just run the same speed with my 100AH power source and should get the same range.
If I am missing something here I would be grateful for your guidance as you certainly have more experience with this system than I. My plan is to order it this Friday unless something comes up.
I have to admit, I won’t miss all that extra stuff I had to carry around for the diesel maintenance. If I was planning on doing long distance trips the diesel would be appropriate but then again I’d need a bigger boat.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
Be VERY careful with Renogy batteries. I have their Solar Controller and was considering replacing my 464 Ah lead acid US Battery house bank with their Lithium batteries so I called their customer service.
They confirmed that NONE of their LiPO4 batteries are ABYC or marine-rated and they do NOT warranty nor indemnify them for that use.
If God forbid you had a runaway thermal condition or Battery Management System (BMS) failure which caused a catastrophic fire, and there was an investigation by the insurance company, they may disclaim coverage.
For what it’s worth…
Michael,
That is a very important point.
Here is an article from Panbo addressing the recently adopted ABYC E-13 standards for Lithium batteries.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
Michael,
Having followed your lead I have examined your concerns as they may apply to my circumstance. It seems that E-13 encompasses not only battery specifications but also installation and following manufacturers’ operating requirements. As such it is impractical for a battery manufacturer to certify their product according to ABYC E-13. One of the important aspects of E-13 recommendations is a “Battery Management System” which most Lithium batteries of this class have built in systems. In reference to Renogy batteries, they their COS perimeters are clearly stated. In addition they have a monitor which connects to the BMS and a Blue tooth adapter for sending a code warning to your cell phone.
So it seems the only remaining concern is insurance, this is the devil in the details. Obviously insurance companies have an interest in minimizing their risk and one tool commonly used is exclusions to your coverage. Only market pressure will force an insurance company to include certain risk factors in their policy, which means that until the majority of insurance carriers accept Lithium battery risks their standard response will be an exclusion. That amounts to an arbitrary and individual insurance carrier’s position on this issue.
All that being said, I’m curious about the widespread use of Lithium batteries in trolling motor applications. I see that many Lithium battery manufacturers specifically promote their product for this application. How are fishermen dealing with this insurance conundrum? They are far more numerous than us humble sailors.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
P.S. to the insurance issue. We face many risks when we go upon the sea for recreation and there are no guarantees of our ultimate safety. So it comes down to each individual’s risk assessment and their willingness to accept that risk.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
I just changed from four 200 Amp AGM batteries which I have used since 2008 when I converted my NS 30U to electric propulsion. This year I installed a single Allied 48 volt 105 amp Lithium Battery. It has a number of certifications including the UN/DOT 38.3. Some of the tests required for the battery to receive this certification is as follows:
UN/DOT 38.3
T2 – Thermal Test (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries)
Test covers changes in temperature extremes from -40C to +75C. Batteries are stored for 6 hours at -40C (12 hours for large cells/batteries), then 6 hours at +75C (12 hours for large cells/batteries), for a total of 10 cycles.
T3 – Vibration (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries)
Test simulates vibration during transportation. Test is a Sine Sweep: 7Hz – 200Hz – 7Hz in 15 Minutes; 12 Sweeps (3 hours); 3 mutually perpendicular axes.
T4 – Shock (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries)
Test also simulates vibration during transportation. Test is a Half-Sine pulse: 150G/6ms for small cells/batteries; 50G/11ms for large cells/batteries; 3 pulses per direction; 6 directions (+/-z, +/-x, +/-y).
T5 – External Short Circuit (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries)
This test simulates an external short to the terminals of the cell or battery. At temperature of +55C, apply short circuit (<0.1ohm) across terminals. Maintain at least an hour after sample temperature returns to +55 +/-2°C. Pass criteria are: Case temperature does not exceed +170°C and no disassembly, rupture, or fire within 6 hours of test. Fuse, current limiting circuit, and venting mechanism activation are allowable.
T6 – Impact (Primary and Secondary Cells)
This test is only applicable to primary and secondary cells. For cylindrical cells >20mm diameter, it simulates impact to case of cell.
T7 – Overcharge (Secondary Batteries)
This test is for secondary or rechargeable batteries only. It simulates an overcharge condition on a rechargeable battery: 2x the manufacturer’s recommended charge current for 24 hours. Then battery shall be monitored for 7 days for fire or disassembly.
T8 – Forced Discharge (Primary and Secondary Cells)
This testing simulates a forced discharge condition for primary and secondary cells only.
Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island