Considering electric conversion

[system]

Tim - watch out for marketing fluff.

VRLA AGM batteries discharge at about 3% per month. Last year, charged, then immediately disconnected AGM batteries survived the October to May Canadian Season, with the Victron monitor showing over 96% charge still when re-connected in the spring. I expect the same (or close) next spring.

So, the Dakota battery statement should read “0X” rather than “5X”, or even “-0.5%” .

Marketing - great if you are in the business of selling, not so great if you are on the receiving end!

If their marketing was correct, then I’d have had to replace my AGM batteries last spring. They worked just fine.

(this is NOT to take away from what you, or any of our Nonsuch group are doing with regards to
batteries, and propulsion or sails, or… - it’s all great, interesting stuff and keep posting your progress)

JohnS NS26C 046 tucked away for the winter in Bath, ON.

[system]

Tim,

I’m very sympathetic to your comment:

Only a couple pictures this week, but boy am I sore… and I think I need today as a recovery day for my back and shoulders.

I’ve got back problems, so I – very literally – feel your pain.

My conversion schedule slipped several months and went several thousand dollars over budget because of them.

My problems were pre-existing, but the project certainly wasn’t therapeutic for them.

I now strongly urge everyone who’s working on boat projects to do find out what the proper stretching and strengthening exercises are for the areas that seem most prone to hurt. Stop at regular intervals and do those stretches. (I learned this from a nephew who works as mechanic on trains; it turns out his employer doesn’t just suggest this to their employees – they require it.)

Pain is very highly overrated as a source of pleasure. Suffering for the greater good is heroic. Suffering unnecessarily is best left to professional athletes (who are highly paid to do it) and Youtube/Tiktok celebrities (who seem to be begging for it).

None of this is intended to imply that doing the conversion is particularly risky. It’s like using a power saw – if you insist on putting your hands near the blade, it’s risky. If you don’t, less so.

As a matter of fact, having back problems was a significant factor my conversion decision. I thought about how much time I could expect to spend in the engine compartment with my diesel vs. with an electric. The ultimate reduction in maintenance time afforded by switching over was part of the decision.

At the current pace, I’ll have put 50 hours of use on my new system by the end of its first year. The next major recommended maintenance for it is to add grease through an easily accessible zerk fitting – when it reaches 500 hours.

I’m conservative enough that I’ll certainly be checking more frequently than every ten years. But I like the idea (or, at least, the hope) that my trips into the engine compartment will be when I feel like it rather than when my diesel’s decided to demand TLC.

– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233

[RONALD_WEBER]

Bob and Tim - I hear you loud and clear. Being 77 years young, I find working in the engine room is no picnic. Like you, I am really looking forward to the promise of giving up all that maintenance. It is one thing I never imagined would stand in the way of my sailing. I am hoping that the electric propulsion will extend my sailing days. My wife loves the boat and stood in the way of me selling it so this conversion may hold the key to “a happy wife makes a happy life”.

Chin up and keep going Tim the pain won’t last forever.

Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl

[system]

You go, Ron (and Mrs. Ron, too)!

– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233

[user43]

Actually, Ron … I’d imagine that Mrs. Ron is in far better shape than you (because that’s always the way, isn’t it … ). As she loves the boat (which is always good), perhaps you should suggest HER presence in “Schubert’s Unfinished Basement” to get some of that nasty stuff done. Not all of it but …

Another great idea from the fertile mind of:

Ernie A. in Toronto

[RONALD_WEBER]

Brilliant plan Ernie, but I avoided the problem altogether by moving here to Florida where we have no basements.

Ron Weber
N22 Magis Time
Punta Gorda Fl

[user43]

Of course, I meant the basement under your cockpit. THAT has been my basement as I have had no engine to befoul the surroundings. My (former) boat is an outboard version.

Ernie A. in Toronto (where buildings must have basements)

[system]

Sorry to burst you bubble Tim but " I had a .004" feeler gauge as recommended, but after a couple of adjustments we went from almost a 1/8" gap at the bottom of the coupler to fully flush with no discernable gap at all" is a little early.

The builder recommends you align the engine while the boat is in the water preferably a few days after it goes in because the stands don’t support the hull the same way water does. It’s nice to start with a fully flush coupler but you have to check it again after splash.

Tom
26C #28

[Tim_Cordes]

Thanks for pointing that out Tom. I hadn’t thought about that, but it is obvious when I consider how I experienced hull deformation on my prior boats. I had an Endeavour 37 where the head and stateroom doors refused to close on the jackstands, but they were both absolutely fine when I was in the slip. I’ll back off the coupler bolts a few turns when I launch in the Spring and remeasure with the feeler gauge.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[Tim_Cordes]

Final connections and first test. There is still a lot of wiring spaghetti in the engine room, so next spring I will need to install a bunch more cable clamps. I’ll also need to sort out the 12v system now that the cables can no longer ground through the engine block.

After a successful test of forward and reverse, I dropped the boom for the winter, and called the shrink wrap company.

Now I just have to wait until spring for sea trials.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch e26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[system]

Congratulations on a job well done.

(attachments)

[user11]

Tim

Make sure you keep your motor/battery monitoring display covered when not in use. I had an XBM battery display go bad because it saw to much sun.

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island

[user43]

Nice job, Tim. Clean and neat as a pin.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Tim_Cordes]

Hi Mike,

I was concerned about that as well. Turns out that even with the additional bulk of the display and controller, my Sunbrella pedestal cover still fits pretty well. It rides a bit higher, so the bottom 8" or so of the pedestal is uncovered, but it still fits over the chartplotter and new controls. Maybe next year I will sew up a new cover that fits more elegantly, but till then, my current one will keep the display out of the UV rays. I remover my wheel every time after I’m done sailing, so the pedestal cover is essentially a long cylinder in shape, so it shouldn’t be too hard to remake with a skosh more room.

The bigger problem is that I reached out to grab the guardrail through the cover for balance and wound up bending the display support bracket a little bit. It bent back pretty easily with no obvious lasting harm, but I will have to remember that I have to be more careful where I grab now when everything is covered up.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch e26C #32 “ENCORE”

Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[system]

Tim,

I had a similar grab and bend experience, and ended up building an extra guardrail around the controls. Still a bit of a work in progress, as you can see from the lashings. This picture makes it look like the right vertical support is somehow attached to the throttle box, but it actually runs forward of it.

I’ve found it extremely handy in moving about the cockpit, in addition to protecting the controls. Now that I have it, I’d want it even if I didn’t need it to protect anything.
This created problems for my pedestal cover, but I’m planning to replace that soon anyway (I’m looking at the Sailrite cover packages (https://www.sailrite.com/Sail-and-Canvas-Kits/Sail-and-Canvas-Covers/Wheel-Covers), which seem pretty reasonable.

– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233

[RONALD_WEBER]

Two questions for Bob and/or Tim:

1. If you are using multiple batteries in parallel did you route positive from the first battery and negative from the last battery to balance the load? I’ve read this to be the proper way to get even distribution of battery charge and discharge but it wasn’t included in the recommendation if that also applies to Lithium batteries with built in BMS.
2. When doing the configuring if I set the power to 50% will that limit the input to 5KW? What setting did you use? If I don’t plan to use regeneration should I just set that value to “0”? What is the physical effect of various regeneration settings?

Finishing up my installation today or tomorrow and then the appropriate testing to first be done tied in the slip. I plan to operate at different power levels for a specific time period to gauge available run time. I am using four 48volt 50AH LifePo4 with built in BMS. I am speculating 2-4 hours to 20% SOC at a power setting of 3-4KW which should provide 4knts to 4.5knts.

Guess I better take some “before the fire” pictures which I will share.

Really excited about this whole thing and working in the engine room sure is a lot cleaner. It should be nice to not constantly check cooling water flow, oil pressure, engine temperature, alternator output, and visually inspecting for leaks and broken stuff. We shall see.

Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl

(attachments)

[system]

Ron,

I sent you the contact info directly for the best guy at ElectricYacht to ask these questions.

I did my batteries as you describe, drawing positive from the first and negative from the last. But my batteries didn’t have their own BMS’s and I don’t know whether that complicates things or doesn’t matter.

– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233

[Tim_Cordes]

Hi Ron,

I spent a fair bit of time thinking about this myself. If my batteries had been adjacent, I probably would have gone that way, but since I wound up placing them outboard to port and starboard, it was difficult to think of a way to do that easily. In the end, I connected both negatives to a buss bar and both positives to another buss bar, and then ran the positive and negative lead of the charger to its respective buss bar mounted on the transom.

In the picture below, you can see the negative buss bar top (yellow cables) then the 250A fuse below that, and finally the positive buss bar on the bottom. The 10GA black and red cables coming in from the left of the picture go from the 48v charger to the top and bottom buss bars. Since in a parallel wiring configuration both batteries would have their positives and negatives connected no matter how it is done, I reasoned that it might not make too much difference if the charger wires came in anywhere along those connections. I am sure that someone with an electrical engineering background could explain about ohm resistance and voltage drop as opposed to having the charging wires directly connected to the opposite battery poles, but I felt that the more secure and simple layout I designed would outweigh those concerns. I hope that I am right.

Good luck finishing up, Ron. I’m very jealous that you are still able to be in the water. The season is over here in Michigan for all intents and purposes, so I will have to wait for Spring to truly enjoy the results of all this work.

Tim Cordes
Nonsuch e26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan

[RONALD_WEBER]

I hope that we are right. This is new to me and although it all looks good on paper the real test is yet to come. I based this entire project around what I envision as the future of my sailing so I hope I didn’t overlook anything.
I will have to confess that in my sailing youth I would only resort to the motor in preference to selling my soul to the devil. That didn’t endear my wife to the joy of sailing when there was little wind and summer heat on the Chesapeake. I guess she just wasn’t into the finer points of sail trim for light air.

I will provide updates and pics as I proceed through the initial phases.

Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl

(attachments)

[system]

1. If you are using multiple batteries in parallel did you route positive from the first battery and negative from the last battery to balance the load? I’ve read this to be the proper way to get even distribution of battery charge and discharge but it wasn’t included in the recommendation if that also applies to Lithium batteries with built in BMS.

If you have correctly sized cables and solid connections, then this cannot matter. If you cable two or three or ten positive terminals together using cable which is adequately sized and with solid connectors, then they are all at the same electric potential. Same with the negative terminals. You basically have a positive “bus” and a negative “bus” and it doesn’t matter where you take your load from the bus. If you find that it does matter, then you have problem that needs to be addressed and corrected.