Interesting Tim. This engine compartment looks exactly like my C26#28 except for the soot. Cant wait to see photos of the QT 10 install. I’m wondering how it will get bolted to the angle iron engine beds. It looks like you removed or sawed off three of the original bolts. Were these bolts welded onto that angle iron?
Tom
Hi Tom
I had a local mechanic do the removal of the W13a diesel, and he sawed off all the bolts save the one that is still sticking up. The bolts coming up through the angle iron might be welded, but I suspect they are hanger bolts lagged into the plywood engine stringers underneath. I plan to drill new holes through with a corded half-inch drill, and use the lag bolts that came with the motor mounts from Electric Yacht. We’ll see if that works this weekend. I’ll cut off the last bolt with an angle grinder if it is in the way, otherwise I might just leave it.
The last remaining bolt has actually been pretty handy up to this point as a stop to keep my planking from sliding around.
Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
Brings back a happy memory from my experience…
Yours looks well on its way to a very nice installation, Tim.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Removing all that old iron and associated gear, parts, and fluids sure put a smile on my face. Hard to believe how much stuff I had to carry to support that smoker.
I have begun my installation and hope to be completed by Thanksgiving. I also decided to go with Electric Yacht for my installation. It may not have been the least expensive but made it easy enough for me to do the work myself. I really didn’t want a yearlong project at this point. So far everything is falling into place quite nicely. I will provide pictures upon completion and open to any technical questions from prospective converts.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl.
Tim
Nice install. FYI make sure you don’t try to charge the Lithium battery if it’s temperature is 32 degrees Fahrenheit or below over the winter. You could destroy the Lithium battery $$$. Best to wait for spring and warmer temperatures. Luckily the Lithium does not self discharge like Lead acid/ AGM does over the winter. I’ve already disconnected my solar charger and will disconnect the remaining battery wires when I get back from Key West and connect them back up in the spring..
Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island
Thanks for the tip, Mike. I charged both batteries up at home prior to installing them in the boat in my warm kitchen using the Dakota chargers that were included with the purchase of each battery. My concern now is actually the other way - I have read that it is not advisable to keep the LiFePo batteries at full charge for long-term storage. I will be running them down a little bit when I connect the motor for testing in the cradle this weekend (hopefully), but I don’t think that I will be able to drain them to the 50%-75% charge that I have heard about. I will be shutting the boat up and shrink wrapping it after this weekend, since it is getting too cold to work in the boatyard and we had a little bit of snow already on Halloween night. I’ll try and spin the motor a little extra, but with no water resistance on the prop, I will probably still be storing them overwinter at 90%+ capacity. I don’t have solar or shore power at the boatyard, so the batteries won’t get any additional charging before Spring launch and sea trials.
Referencing back to the earlier post with the video from “Sailing Uma” (whom I have followed regularly for years) they said that the number of charge cycles specified for LiFePo batteries will last them more than a decade, so maybe if I shorten the life of the batteries a little bit by keeping them charged in excess of recommendations, they will still outlive me. Fingers crossed.
Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
Tim,
The one thing I’d like to add as a caution is to be careful and gentle in the final stages of installation.
I’ve been trying to figure out how to phrase a balanced message.
I’m overall very happy with ElectricYacht, both product and service. And, I’m very happy with my conversion. I like that other people are doing it. It’s not for everyone, but it’s a very good choice for some of us.
However, I don’t want to give the impression that it’s 100% unicorns and rainbows. In the course of my installation, I noticed that it was very easy to strip threads on the posts if you overtorque while hooking up cables to the motor.
I had to remove and replace the controller because the original I received was defective. (Again, let me emphasize, excellent service from ElectricYacht. Their president spent literally two and a half hours on the phone with me walking through debugging it before concluding it was defective, the replacement was sent that day, and it arrived FedEx as soon as possible.)
I also had to change the gearing – my fault, that one, because I didn’t have good data on my propeller when I ordered and guessed incorrectly. That led me to have to open up the motor even further than replacing the controller had.
In the course of doing these things, I did notice that there are a lot of places where stainless steel screws are going into aluminum housings. I don’t expect this to be a problem in normal usage. There may be some long term risk of corrosion, but I think that my engine compartment is far less conducive to that now that there’s no longer multiple potential trouble spots like water and exhaust hoses.
My primary point is not to critique their choices of material. It’s just to point out that, because of the difference in hardness of the materials, it’s another reminder to be careful about overtorquing.
I’m one of those guys whose go-to solution approach is brute force. That’s not the winning strategy here.
If anyone regards any of the above as discouragement for doing a conversion, let me offer an alternative interpretation: if I could do it, then it really can’t be that hard.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 326U #233
Bob,
Nice summation and good points made. I have been approaching mine with “measure 5 times cut once” mind set. So far it hasn’t proven to be any more difficult than other boat projects that I’ve completed. The biggest challenge for me was the necessary learning curve that I felt would guide me to good decisions. So far that time has proven to be well spent making my choices easier. Of course it’s not done till it’s done and when that prop turns in the right direction and nothing goes up in smoke I will smile and have a double shot of Pyrat rum. I will add the comment that for us amateurs the Electric Yacht kit is a very good starting point. A lot of folks built their own battery bank, but I liked the ready built batteries with integrated BMS. A little more money but I like that they are designed and tested as a compatible unit each with its own BMS, as well as any potential warranty issues. My battery installation is all planned and just waiting for wiring, so it’s looking good to complete by Thanksgiving.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
Tim -
Can you not connect a light bulb to the batteries and just let it slowly run the batteries down, even if you are not there ?? Once the boat is shrink wrapped, you’ll still be able to get aboard through some kind of port or door, right ? We (barely) missed snowflakes on halloween ( but, boy oh boy, was it ever chilly).
Otherwise, good on you, sir, for going electric.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Oh … almost forgot … in the words of the venerable Mike Quill " A product called Tefgel allows you to mix different metals without creating corrosion."
It’s very good stuff. https://www.tefgel.com/#
Ernie A. in Toronto
Thanks Bob. I am a little worried about being appropriately gentle. I took the motor out of it’s shipping box when I got it and left it in the back of my pickup truck for more than a month (I have a cap and a rubber floor mat). When my cousin and I finally lifted it aboard, it appeared that the mounting bolts had loosened a bit, and the belt was quite loose on the shaft gear. Turning it rightside up seemed to make everything fall into place, but I will need to re-tighten some of the mounting bolts. I also foolishly laid the motor on its side in my truck and there was some considerable chafe on the cable bundle coming out the rear of the motor. I think it is just superficial, and I wrapped the chafed area solidly with electrical tape, but I would recommend to anyone else considering Electric Yacht to leave the motor in the shipping carton until ready for installation.
Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
Interesting idea, Ernie. I don’t have a 48v inverter, and I don’t have any lamps that are specifically rated for 48v, but I might be able to gen something up that would deplete the batteries a bit. Nice job “thinking outside the box”!
Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
Ron - I found the wiring design to be the real wild card. When you have essentially a blank canvas to start with, even simple decisions like “where to I put the main 48v switch?” can cause analysis paralysis. For me, two full weekends were used up cleaning the soot out of my engine room, and one more was spent putting on 2 coats of enamel paint, but every night I was using MS Paint to lay out and think about where I would put my wire runs. I paid special attention to trying to get the positive and negative cables close to one another to avoid EMF problems, but up until I screwed it in I was back and forth about the location of the 48v charger. In the end, I was pretty satisfied with my decisions, but I could have gone any number of different ways with it. In a parallel universe I probably came up with the ultimate layout, but I think the way I went will do OK. I posted a lot of pictures so other folks can learn from the experience I had, just like I learned a lot reviewing the excellent write-up that Bob Neches did for his install. Tim’s installation on White O’morn convinced me that I wanted a pretty, freshly painted engine room - especially after the sooty nasty mess that the old leaky diesel left behind. And Mike’s great Bianka blog was pivotal to me believing that an electric conversion would fit my sailing style.
Not to get mawkish about it, but this discussion board really allowed me to “stand on the shoulders of giants” and any little bit I can give back with my random snapshots of my own install makes me feel good. Best of luck with your conversion Ron, and I look forward to seeing your additions to the body of knowledge that is being amassed here.
Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
Thanks for the kind words, Tim.
I spent a lot of time with MS-Powerpoint playing with my wiring runs, then made some changes during installation (no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy). In addition to the concerns you mentioned, one other worth mentioning might be keeping things accessible when needed but protected the rest of the time.
I was just re-reading Jorgen Moller’s article in the Spring/Summer 2015 INA Update (V6, #11, pp. 4-7, downloadable from www.Nonsuch.org) about his 2011 conversion of Pondus, and realizing that the links in it were key to the start of my educational process. So let’s add him (while giving MIke another back-pat, since Jorgen cites him as an inspiration), to the list of people we e-boaters want to acknowledge.
This is my 50th year of sailing and I’m now on my seventh boat, so I feel I’ve got a good data set upon which to base my conclusion that the Nonsuch crowd is the best and most helpful owners group you can find.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Put 4 -12Volt light bulbs in series on 48 Volt system. A 120v incandescent light bulb will work.
Another way would be to connect a 120v heating element. It will work at less than 1/2 output.
Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT
Ward and Tim -
I was going to suggest that but then I wondered, because the batteries put out DC voltage, would that be a problem ?? I dunno …
Initially, I was going to suggest this:
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Ernie A. in Toronto
Tim
I’m currently in Key West about to head back and have BIANKA pulled for the winter. My battery is currently at 93% capacity. I went with an Allied 48 volt 105 amp hour Lithium battery to replace the four 8A4D AGM lead acid batteries.
https://alliedlithium.com/products/allied-commercial-48v-lithium-batteries-golf-and-utv
Here is what their website says about long term storage of their Lithium batteries:
" Allied batteries are great for long term storage.
To store correctly: fully charge the battery, unplug charger, flip the golf cart switch to tow mode and press the power button on the side of the Allied Battery.
Great for long winters or snow birds leaving for months."
Not sure if it would be the same for your Dakota battery but a check with the manufacturer should get you the correct procedure.
Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island
Hi Mike
Thanks for your post. I re-read the Dakota LiFePO4 battery literature, and then downloaded an additional user manual from their website. Aside from teh usual warnings about not actively charging the batteries cold, they seem to recommend full charge for storage:
"LiFePO4 batteries have a low self-discharge rate of 3 – 5% per month, so they can be left in a partially discharged state for over a year without damaging the battery. This is 5X less than the self-discharge rate of VRLA batteries, but it is higher than some other lithium based systems.
L.F.P. batteries should be stored well charged at a temperature between 40 – 95°F, however, they need to be above 32°F to charge. We recommend charging your lithium batteries every two months to ensure they do not completely drain"
While this statement isn’t as crystal clear as the Allied Battery text “Great for long winters or snow birds leaving for months”, I think I’ll be OK overwintering with a full charge. I can’t even remember where I read about the “50% capacity for storage” because I have been researching this electric conversion idea for so long.
Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
Only a couple pictures this week, but boy am I sore. I spent five hours laying in the engine tunnel getting the motor mounts installed yesterday. I thought that leaving the mild steel L-brackets on top of the engine stringers would make for a more secure install, so I had to drill eight 3/8" clearance holes through the steel for the motor mount feet lag bolts. Using copious amounts of motor oil for lubrication, and trying to use as low speed as possible with my 1/2 corded drill, it still took all afternoon to get them drilled and bolted down. In retrospect, either removing the L-brackets and using a drill press, or just taking them out altogether might have been a better option.
I used Bob’s idea of screwing on wooden handles to the side flanges to make it easier for my cousin and I to move the engine in and out to check alignment:
It took three tries before we were able to mark the locations for the lag bolts in the mounting feet, because we started with side flanges at the lowest set of bolt holes, which on my engine stringers put the coupler about 3 5/8" too high. We moved the flanges up to the second highest set of holes and were able to get good alignment with the couplers by raising the aft nuts almost to the top of the mounting foot bolts. We also adjusted the angle of the flanges by loosening the lower flange bolt and swinging the entire motor a bit using the semi-circular lower bolt slot. I had a .004" feeler gauge as recommended, but after a couple of adjustments we went from almost a 1/8" gap at the bottom of the coupler to fully flush with no discernable gap at all.
Since there is very little room for adjustment forward and aft on the slots in the side flange, I was very concerned about getting the prop shaft at the right position in that orientation. I found that adding four zip ties to the shaft between one of my shaft anodes and the cutless bearing strut kept my shaft in the right position based on the smooth patches on the shaft that had no marine growth because they were inside the cutless bearing. Fortunately, there seemed to be almost no play up or down or side to side at the stuffing box end, so I feel relatively confident that the flax packing won’t leak any more than it has in the past. I won’t really know about that or any vibration until I launch for sea trials in the Spring.
Since I am too portly to fit up through the lazarette, we had to remove the motor after our final test fit so I could get out of the engine tunnel. I will have to bolt the couplers together through the starboard berth access opening I cut last year, but I think that should work. Both my cousin and I were absolutely beat after drilling and bolting in the mounting feet, and it was getting pretty dark and cold, so we didn’t get everything connected to test the motor yesterday, and I think I need today as a recovery day for my back and shoulders.
Tim Cordes
Nonsuch (soon to be e)26C #32 “ENCORE”
Ford Yacht Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
Tim
I think the 50-60% charge state over the winter was dependent on the type of Lithium chemistry the battery used. Maybe the Allied and Dakota’s use the newer type chemistry. This will be my first winter with the Allied Lithium battery. I will need to charge to 100% before I pull the boat for the winter. Temperatures in my area should be warm enough for a month or two to do so. One of the things with the Allied battery that I really like is it has a bluetooth app. In addition to charge data the phone app shows the voltage of each individual cells and most important it has three sensors that monitor battery temperature. So I should be able to do an occasional charge over the winter if the battery temperature shows it won’t harm the battery and if it really needs a charge. It will be interesting to see how things go over this first winter.
Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island
