I am purchasing the Doyle StackPack for my NS30C. I installed a
Strong Track a year ago. I would appreciate any thoughts about things
unique to the Nonsuch 30C when ordering the Doyle StackPack.
Bob McPeek, NS30C, Pau Hana, San Francisco
If you don't have a wishbone extender, and if you do have a bimini, you probably have to keep your choker fairly tight, and your topping lift up, as well, when the sail is down. This keeps the sail from chafing on the forward edge of the bimini, or the mainsheet from chafing on the aft edge of the bimini frame.
IF that is so, then you need to be sure that the stackpack is installed so that the weight of the sail isn't pulling on the tack. If it does pull too hard, even the best made sail can rip.
Marion Gropen
Meander, NS36 #41, 1986
North Shore YC
Port Washington, NY
There is a picture of a Nonsuch with a Doyle Stack Pack on the Doyle web site.
I have a Doyle StackPack on my 36 here in Annapolis. I would be happy to discuss it with you. I have a few thoughts to share. Feel free to contact me directly.
Mike Ostrow
NS 36 #40, Arendar
Annapolis
Tom & Ginger Anderson wrote:
Mike-
Why not share thoughts with the list? I for one would like to know what your experience has been with the stack pack.
Thanks,
Dave
There’s a lot to discuss and this has been covered a number of times already. I’ll look for my old posting and see if I can copy and paste it in again. However, in the meantime, if anyone has specific questions I’m happy to respond to the list in general, or to private emails.
Overall I’m very happy with the Stackpack. I’m not sure I’d sail nearly as much as I do if I didn’t have one on my 36. I can’t even imagine wrestling with a sail that size and a traditional sail cover.
Mike
Dave Fournier wrote:
(attachments)
I too am considering a Doyle StackPack and would like to hear your comments, positive and/or negative, regarding it.
Sandy Hiltz
KATAHDIN 30C 140
I also have a new StackPack on my NS33 in Annapolis and would be happy to answer questions. Marion Gropen’s observations about being sure the StackPack can clear your dodger and bimini are on point, although I know of no secret trick to do that. I had a new Doyle sail built along with my StackPack and I had them raise the clew higher with that in mind, and I lowered my Natty Bimini by cutting off some of the stainless steel frame. That still necessitates keeping the topping lift higher than is ideal for sail shape; you must remember to lower and raise the topping lift, in addition to remembering to loosen and tighten the choker if you want the best sail shape. I had hoped to avoid that.
My sail/StackPack was made with a zipper attaching the foot of the sail to the StackPack, and the upper part of the “membrane” attached to the sail with velcro; the idea was to allow the sail or the StackPack to be removed alone. That has not been useful in practice and I would recommend against it.
The StackPack will fill with rain water,so vents along the bottom are necessary to allow accumulated water to drain out, but it is incomplete and there is no perfect solution. Vents along the membrane are also needed. Before the vent drains were added, I would get solid water deluging the boat when the sail was raised after a heavy rain; it is now like moderate rain and is tolerable.
I am still adjusting the hanger lines to allow the StackPack and membrane to rest against the sail when going upwind, and almost have it perfect. You also need a method to keep the forward opening of the StackPack next to the mast closed; the leeward side will fill with wind when going upwind otherwise. Doyle Annapolis rigged shock cord which pulls the sides together when the sail it raised and it works well when the sail is fully raised, but not when it is reefed.
My experience is the same as Mike Ostrow’s: I sail more often now. Getting the old cover off and back on with a dodger and a bimini was more than this 72 years young sailor could handle with ease. I have had eleven (11) squamous skin cancers cut off in 2010 alone, so dispensing with the bimini and dodger is not a prudent option for me. The StackPack has extended my sailing days immeasurably.
If you are not having a new sail made, you might consider the alteration that John Iscaro showed on the INA website. He converted a bottom closing sail cover to a top closing one. I don’t know if anyone else has imitated it, and it may have some peculiar issues. But it is much much simpler and does not use either a membrane or battens in the cover. I think it would be worth a try.
Joe Tierney Allegro NS33 #64 Annapolis, MD
Thanks Joe. Not much more for me to add. Your summary is spot on.
Mike
Joseph L. Tierney wrote:
Interesting discussion. At 72 and with older friends as crew, I decided to
rebuild my N26C white Sunbrella sail cover, as the cover was no fun to lash
up at the end of a nice day's sail. N26C sail foot is 20.5 feet.
Front portion of sail cover: I cut off the aft 16 feet of the cover. I put
new Velcro on the remaining front portion of the sail cover that goes up and
around the mast. This vertical velcro flap and a new vertical front zipper
on the mast hold this portion of the sail cover in place. There are small
sewn in rope ties to lash the top of the cover securely around the mast. I
have added 12 inches to the aft end of the old front portion of the sail
cover which extends over the front part of the new 18 foot portion by three
to four feet. This forward portion will be removed and stowed for sailing.
This front portion is easy to lash up after a sail. It now has four (instead
of three) bottom grommets. These are easy to secure when sitting on the
forward cabin top. I did put in one bottom rain drainage grommet six inches
forward from the aft end. This front portion extends over the new aft
portion by approximately five feet. I don't know exact dimensions as I
haven't sailed her yet.
Aft portion of sail cover: The new aft end is 18 feet long. It has two nine
foot zippers on top with a flap over each zipper which is secured by Velcro
in an attempt to keep rain water out at the mooring. Also, I installed 12
drainage grommets on the sail cover bottom to drain rain water. This 18 foot
sail cover section remains in place when the sail is up. The sail cover is
lashed to the aft end of the wishboom. The front of the sail cover is lashed
to the gooseneck aft of the Fair Lead Collar. These lashings keep the sail
cover in place when sailing. On the old website, there was an article about
this method of building a sail cover. The new aft portion of the sail cover
has sewn in grommets six inches up each side from the sail cover bottom.
These grommets are affixed to the cradle lines. I did measure the exact
distances on my boat between the cradle lines when hauling out this Fall.
Now, I am able to have any an all sailmakers make a sail with no
restrictions caused by a unique or restrictive sail cover. Also, perhaps
there is less wind interference on the foot of the sail when sailing. Reef
to your heart's content - No interference from the sail cover. The cover
remains in the bottom six inches of the cradle lines.
Total Cost was $350.
Robert M. "Bob" Horne
N26C (1989, # 249), "ENCORE"
Pocasset, MA
Hi
There are two former Nonsuchers who should be consulted on line or off line who
have as much basic Nonsuch knowledge as anyone. Both have had Stackpacks.
They are Jon Ayers and Allen Ames.
Good Sailing
Al
Hi: I’m a new N26 owner, & considering various gear including sail cover types. A couple of months ago someone in Halifax was offering a sail cover to sell because he had just ordered a “Mack Pack” from Mack sails. His ad has since disappeared and I don’t know the seller’s name, but he might have something to add to the discussion if you can scare him up. I’d like to know what the differences are between a Stackpack and a MackPack, and if anyone else has experience with the latter.
Sifford Pearre
N26 #208 (no name yet)
Hi,
I have a NS30 Ultra and have used a Mack Pack for two years. We really enjoy it and sail a lot more than we did before. I have never seen a Doyle StackPack up close so I can’t make a comparison.
Pat
The fact that Jon Ayers and Allen Ames have had StackPacks is the Nonsuch equivalent of The Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, registration with Underwriters’ Laboratory, and a Consumers Union Best Buy rating.
But I bet they are both weary of talking about it.
Joe Tierney Allegro NS33 #64 Annapolis, MD
I, for one, never weary of talking Nonsuch and related issues! The Doyle StackPack is wonderful and wonderfully expensive. If you justify it in your budget, it is definitely the way to go. Accept no substitutes! They are all pale imitations of the “real” thing.
If your sailmaker does not have direct access to your boat, you should give him a set of measurements that will make the StackPack installation much simpler and easier to use once installed:
With the sail furled, measure from the tack fitting to the bottom of each of the hanger lines along the foot of the sail. Give these measurements to the StackPack builder, preferably with a side photo to clarify. If the StackPack is designed to use those same support points (they differ from boat-to-boat), it is an easier installation with fewer “strings”.
See photos of the system in my Webshots album:
http://sports.webshots.com/album/236527931PrrluY
Allen Ames
What happens to the sail cover when the sail is reefed? Does it pile up in the hangers with the rest of the sail?
Nobody ever mentions what the Doyle system costs. Must be mighty expensive. Anyone want to share some $$ information?
I had a quote last year on a MackPack system for 30 footer at US$ 715 including shipping.
Jeff
30-438 SummerPlace
When you're reefed the "bag" hangs open and the unhoisted sail is piled in the bag. In effect, the bag acts exactly like the hangars do on the traditional arrangement.
I can't comment on cost when new because my boat came with the system installed. However, over time I've replaced almost every part of it -- from zippers to the bag itself. Ongoing maintenance is certainly more expensive than using a sail cover and up front cost is "steep." But, again, I think I sail every time out under almost any condition because I don't have to work that hard to get the sail up or put away. For me it's worth it.
Also, consider the price of diesel. If you sail more, you spend less on fuel and related engine maintenance and repair.
Mike Ostrow
NS 36 #40, Arendar
Annapolis
Jeff Orlando wrote:
I stated the wrong price for MackPack on a 30: Its US$ 820 as of last Feb.
Jeff
I thank each of you for your reply. I will request drainage vents.
Are these vents reinforced slits in the material? Please describe.
The cost I was quoted is $100. per foot. 24 feet = $2400. I will
get a winter discount of 10%. This will include assistance with
removal of sail and positioning of the StackPack and sail on the boat
once it has been made. I will rig the lines, etc. I am fortunate
that the loft is less than a mile from my marina. The color of the
Sunbrella I selected is linen which is a light tan. I selected this
color for appearance and at least some resistance to sun damage. A
darker color would offer greater resistance to the sun. Any comments?
I don't have a bimini, and my dodger is quite low. I look over it
while standing at the wheel. This works well on San Francisco Bay. I
would therefor guess that I don't need to be concerned about the
chafing Marion Gropen describes. The forward opening f the StackPack
will have velcro attached to keep the stack pack closed. Does anyone
have experience with this remedy? I appreciate Allen Ames
recommendation about the placement of the hanger lines. I'm purchasing
the StackPack so that I will be able to sail more often with greater
ease. I'm finding a direct correlation with age and loss of energy.
Working out the the gym certainly helps but doesn't completely solve
the energy problem. I think that the cost of the StackPack will be
worth it.
Bob McPeek, Pau Hana, NS30C, San Francisco
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
There are pictures of the Stackpack on my boat in the photo gallery under the Ultra’s #357. There are pictures with the sail cover closed and in race mode. I agree on on the venting of both the membrane and the cover to prevent water from filling the stackpack. I love mine.
I would talk to Ed Botterell who is the number one guru on such matters of sail and Stackpack.
Jmo,
Frank Anderson
Namaste #357U
Winthrop, Ma.