NS30U, W27a Westerbeke engine. Never had this issue in the last 14 months.
I am on my first week-long sailing trip. Not great wind yesterday, motored about 4 hours, no issues. Fuel level approx. 5/8.
Today there was absolutely no wind, so we had to motor to our next destination. About 2 hours in, the engine suddenly lost some power for a few minutes. Didn’t stall, but definitely noticeable change in that nice, constant hum. A little after that, same issue and the engine died. Almost like it was running out of fuel. I rechecked and the tank shows 1/2 full. Tapped on the fuel transponder and the gauge held. Restarted the engine right away. No issues for a while.
Then, maybe 1/2 hour later, the engine loses power again. Stalls. I’m about 1.5 hours away from our destination, so I keep puttering on. The issue becomes more and more often, sometimes running for 5 minutes at a time before stalling. It usually starts right back up, but bogs down after a run at about 2000 rpms for different times. One time, I let it coast for a few minutes, and then it ran for the next 30 minutes with no problem. Then stalled again one last time before we got to our destination.
The fuel is from this season, and I use the biocide to keep it from becoming a bacterial issue. All 3 fuel filters are new as of March.
Bob,
I had a somewhat similar situation in FATE (W27) a few years ago. Engine rpms kept dipping and losing power. Turned out to be a clogged fuel filter even though it had been replaced at the beginning of the season and I use a biocide. Can you try changing filters?
Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30 U #343
Galesville MD
Sounds similar to a problem I had with my Universal 35 a few years ago. The best of my recollection is that a small thumbwheel valve for bleeding the high pressure fuel line needed replacing. I don’t know if this is a possible problem with a Westerbeke. If that is indeed your problem, it should be a cheap and easy fix.
This sounds similar to a problem I had this summer with my Volvo MD2030 Bob. (I think it occurs in all engines) It never stalled but was dropping rpms. I went on the forums & everyone said that is a fuel starvation problem, either from water, clogged filters, or restricted air intake. When I took my Racor coarse filter off it was pretty gunked up & there was water in the bowl. I replaced the filter and put in treatment that removes water and it has run fine since. So, based on my experience I would recommend checking your filters, topping up with fresh fuel & adding conditioner that removes water. Good luck!
I misspoke in my previous email. The bleed valve is on the low pressure side. That’s pretty obvious, but not when I’m writing emails after midnight. I don’t know if your engine even has one. Another problem I’ve experienced is water in the fuel tank. A fuel additive took care of it.
Same problem. Replaced all three filters. Good for a while, then recurrences during the same season. 1) Removed all fuel. 2) Upgraded to two larger, aircraft-type inspections ports. 3) Dropped a light in one port at a time and cleaned fuel tank until spotless. Some gunk present on bottom. On advice from Irish Yacht Services (Northern Michigan), changed additives. I believe one is Biobor?, not sure of the other. Catharsis. is in storage for winter with that info. Finally, I added new diesel in 5 gallon increments. Using a 3/4 inch dowel I marked it at each 5 gallon increment for future reference. My fuel gauge is set into wood in the starboard locker. I marked each 5 gallon increment on the wood and labeled it for easy reference. And yes, it did differ from the gauge slightly. I now routinely change the oil before haul-out in the fall and replace the three fuel filters once launched in the spring. That was six years ago with no fuel problems. I now carry three of each fuel filter on board at all times.
I had a similar problem it turned out to be the filter in the base lift pump. I was told that I had paper filter and that it will get soft and start to collapse after running the motor for awhile. Motor stops filter returns to normal shape motor starts right up but then the suction starts causing it to collapse again. They replaced it with a plastic filter.
Part number 8 in this drawing
Peter, that’s very interesting about the lift filter. When I replaced the filters for the first time in March, there was a plastic filter in the place of the paper filter. I put in the specified paper filter. I’m wondering if that’s a recurring issue with these filters? Anyone else have issues with the filters?
Bob Gehrman
NS30U #396 “Quickbeam”
Waiting out the storm in St. Michael’s at the spa.
many possible causes for this… one of the simplest and easiest to correct (just my opinion0 is water in your fuel.
This happened to me many years ago, and at first wasn’t evident…
You probably have a Racor separator mounted on a bulkhead in the engine compartment (I have the same 27A engine and have a Racor fuel separator mounted on the forward port side bulkhead in the engine compartment).
It may appear filled with only fuel, and the plastic/glass bowl gets stained diesel pink over the years. Mine was filled with water, with only a bit of fuel floating on the top, which was keeping the engine running, until the boat heeled or bounced enough and then the water would get pulled into the fuel line. Restarting the engine would pull the water thru and fuel would then enter and keep the engine running until the next heeling or bouncing episode when it would quit again.
There is a drain plug at the bottom of the Racor separator - drain the liquid into cup/bowl, clean out any debris. You should be able to tell if there is water or fuel in the cup at this point. You may want to change the Racor filter at this time as well. The engine is self-priming so once you put the Racor bowl and plug back in place, turn your engine key but don’t try to start the engine - you should hear the fuel pump pulling fuel into the Racor and lines. Turn the key off with the Racor partially filled and take a look at what is in there… hopefully it is clean fuel.
The real question becomes ‘How did the water get into the fuel?’… For me, it was the o-ring for the diesel deck fill was old, cracked, and I was washing down the decks a lot. The water was getting past the o-ring and into the fuel tank… once I figured this out, replaced the diesel deck plate o-ring (which I do fairly often now), and I haven’t had this problem since. You may have to empty the Racor a few more times to get all of the water that is in your fuel out of the system, but it is fairly easy to do with the pet-cock on the bottom of the Racor, and easy to see if you are checking it often - the darker fuel will be on top of the water in the Racor.
Treat the fuel tank with stabilizer/water absorber on each fill-up.
Hopefully your issue is this simple.
Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30U 430
Jersey City, NJ
In addition to what’s been said, besides the obvious of changing filters every spring, with a flashlight behind the Racor bowl, any water in the bowl becomes obvious. Even if you don’t see water in that bowl, periodically open the drain and see what comes out. I preach that every spring pull the fuel gauge sender out and with a rigid tube placed into the lowest part of the tank, pump into a clear glass jar to see what’s there. If not perfectly clean, pump ‘till it is. I would certainly do that now. Also, pull the vent hose off and make sure you can easily blow through it. If the mud dauber bees have plugged up the vent on the outside, you can have the same running symptoms you’re experiencing.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
As most have correctly stated fuel filters are most likely the issue. I was told by Westerbeke that the engine mounted filters are 30m , so if you are using 10m or 2M on the Racor it is unlikely this issue is engine mounted filters in the before and in the lift pump.
However… sometimes the issue can be elsewhere. I learned neat tricks from a 20 something diesel mechanic. If you have a suspected fuel flow issue.
Check the vent line, they get plugged with spiders regularly. A plugged vent will set up a vacuum and the fuel will not pump.
Air leaks can develop particularly on older engines when you open any part of the fuel system. To find the leak use electrical tape and successively tape each connection from the tank to the injectors. the issue will stop when you tape the guilty party.
Thanks All - Good info. I replaced the 3 filters and sure enough there was a bunch of crap in the Racor. The fuel lift filter also looked pretty nasty.
Ran well for 3 hours today at 2400rpm no issues. Looks like I’ll be draining the tank when I get back. I think that the old fuel must have grown some junk and since I’ve been using it with biocide it’sr dead and turned to crud.
Curious though- The Racor filter that came with the boat is brown, which I believe is 2m. Shouldn’t that be at least 10m considering the other filters in line?
Thanks -
Bob Gehrman
NS30U #396 “Quickbeam “
Now south of Annapolis in Deale, (Maryland)
I had been having a continuing fuel problem similar to what is described in this thread. Third mechanic solved it. The original engine was replaced some years ago with a Beta 25 and a new Racor/Fuel Water Separator installed. I thought I was familiar with this device having it on several boats over the years. I regularly checked the bulb with a flashlight and saw no sign of water. Turns out hidden in the upper part of the Racor there is a filter element that had not been changed for at least 4 years. That, reported by the mechanic to be full of ‘gunk’ was replaced. End of problem.
Bob D
Nonsuch 30C # 170
Bob,
The previous owners of both my 26 and 30, on the advice of their diesel mechanics, used 2 micron filters in the Racor. The logic being that filter will catch everything and it’s very easy to change. You can even fit a vacuum gauge on the Racor to tell you when the filter needs changing. I’ve continued the practice of using 2 micron filters and carry spares on board. Usually just need to change once annually.
I must have missed something somewhere as I don’t understand the 3 filter concept. Where or what is the 1st assuming the Racor is the 2nd. My Racor is 2 micron and does just fine although most people use a larger sized one. I never change the one at the injection pump which, to the best of my knowledge is supposed to be 2 micron, as it’s never shown any dirt.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA