I’ve received many quotes from several sail makers for a new sail for my NS26C. The Direct-sails.com quote I received today is by far the best price. I was hoping someone had experience dealing with them and could tell me if they are happy with their new sail?
Thanks,
Brandan
Brandan,
Do you consider yourself someone who knows a lot about sails and how to measure and specify them, or someone who’s relying on the skills of the supplier? And, how picky are you about the design features?
From what I’ve seen in postings on sail purchases over the years, the satisfaction with “you measure, we build” remote outfits depends a lot on the answers to those questions.
If you already know what follows, I apologize for insulting your knowledge. I’m offering it up for the benefit of anyone who doesn’t, is all.
The issue is that a sail can “fit” without being ideal. A few examples:
The sail specification for our boats gives only the luff length and the horizontal distance from the clew to the mast, but doesn’t specify where the horizontal is measured. So both these shapes have the same L and P, but will put your boom at very different angles:
Also, both the above images have no roach, which will potentially catch on the topping lift but adds sail area that can enhance performance, so how much of that you get matters
In addition, neither of these determine the depth (shape of the curvature) of your sail, which is a big issue for Nonsuches because the sail needs to be designed fuller like a jib rather than shallower like a conventional sloop’s main.
So, without more details, I’d take answers about sailmakers with a grain of salt. Unless people respond with comments not just with the fit and finish but about how the sail performs, the answers still might not get you the best sail you could.
I write this based on having learned the above, unfortunately, after relying on the local branch of a name brand loft to design and build my sail. What I’ve got is a sail of very high quality fit and finish, but the points above issues are based on what I learned as I grew to understand why I’m still not quite happy with it.
BTW, there’s risks even between sails from the same source. I used the same loft that a friend did. My sail battens are held in place in a very nicely designed and built arrangement. His are held with a cheesy set-up that’s caused him to lose one batten and break another.
Bottom line: if you’re very knowledgeable you can get a good product. Paul Miller ( @PaulM ) can recommend a loft he liked. If not, I’d suggest, despite price differences, sticking with the lofts which have built the most Nonsuch sails and can be trusted to know the special requirements: Quantum, Doyle, and Mack.
This is based on the hard experience of not having done so, and being somewhat disappointed.
– Bob
I may be seeking a new sail and batons next season. I reside in eastern Ontario.
There was an excellent sail loft called Keebles in Belleville bur alas.. long gone.
I don’t trust myself to accurately speficy the details…. relying on a clever loft.
Buce/ NS26C # 003
Bob, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience. While I have many years of sailing experience, I am a novice when it comes to sail design, shape, and build techniques. I appreciate your input very much.
Brandan
Thank you Bob for your faith in my expertise but I’m really just a boat builder and in no way a sail designer. I have nonetheless had very good luck with fareastsails.com . They have built sails for several Nonsuches and I trusted them for all design features. What I supplied was an exhaustive list (photos of tape measures stretched across various places) of measurements of both my old sail and the physical dimensions on my boat including the obvious lengths of sides but also things like the distance mast to clew at 90 degrees to the mast and also along the wishbone and any other I thought might help. By the time I committed to the sail sale I was confident that they understood fully. I’m very happy with the fit and finish as well as the performance and the price was dramatically less than any local quote I’ve seen.
I’m not promoting this particular loft but they did good work for me. Hong Kong lofts have been building cruising sails for sailors around the world for a very long time and they are pretty good at it. You just need to do your end of the work to avoid any issues.
My vote is to go with a local lift. This is a 10-20 year purchase. 3 grand-6 grand, who cares? Support your local businesses! Plus, if it’s not right, they will actually fix the problem. Been there, done that.
Upside to cheap off shore sails are primary lower cost. If there’s issues you are on your own. Sail cloth makers dump the “seconds” into the discount and fall sale market.
I have used Doyle in Rochester NY twice and they are amazing sails. He’s made hundreds of Nonsuch sails over the years. Mack sails is well regarded by Nonsuch owners.
As Bob mentioned there’s details like batten design, roach, cloth weight and type.
Asking other sailors in your area who has produced good sails will give you a few other names
Remaking a botched sail rarely succeeds. And given the magnitude of the purchase you don’t want to be a Guinea pig
Just to be clear, I had a couple of issues with a sail / sail cover order from fareastsails on a gaff sloop I owned before my Nonsuch. One was about the placement of the cut in the sail cover to accommodate the topping lift and the other was about the wire size in the luff of the jib not suiting my Wykham Martin furler.
Neither was specifically their mistake. When I reported the issues they told me to use the boat for the summer and then send the sail and cover back to them for alteration of the cover and replacement of the luff wire.
There was no charge for the alterations and they paid the shipping both ways.
There may be some discount lofts using lesser materials but I have never seen it in the sails I have bought from Dennis LamSails or fareastsails.
Just sayin’….
Below is a page from the 26 U manual. It has the hoist foot and suggested leach. From these numbers you hold the “foot” square to the hoist or mast and then the actual foot is a line from the bottom of the hoist(luff) to the bottom of the leach.
leach girth (also square to the hoist/luff) will give you the roach. Drawings always have a nice curve but between battens it should be a straight line.
I have measured 4 sails and they are all different. Close but different. Botts has a larger roach. Old sails are stretched and are larger. My new sail, North, made in Sri Lanka, is heavy, stiff, but has a really nice shape and is powerful. At first I wasn’t sure but it works well and reefs well, and I am very happy with it.
Also the weight varies. Heaviest sail with slides and battens (North) comes to 64 pounds. Lightest is 45. The cloth you choose is as big a deal as the cut. Then you must choose standard battens, full length battens, or only one full length top batten.
Warning! 
The numbers for the reef points look like they are right but they are labeled wrong! CLEW should be TACK and TACK should be CLEW. Now, most sailmakers would catch this error but if they just blindly go forward you might have some issues later.
I took these numbers and put them into CAD. Also, background is a drawing from the manual and way in back is John Newel’s gaff rig for comparison.
26 Sailplan from Owners Manual.pdf (31.9 KB)
Or a share link may work for you, CAD here Onshape
Tom
26 C # 28 North Star
Penetang
Thanks to everyone who has given their advice on purchasing a new sail. I really appreciate it. I wish I could say I know exactly what I want to do now, but I feel more confused than ever. 
Mack sails in Florida did mine at a very good price.
Tom,
Thanks very much for posting your sail plan info.
This is very useful information. I really wish I’d had it when ordering my sail.
It’s really interesting to me that you were able to produce the drawing from the specs in the manual. I thought when I first read your post that the drawing was from the manual, too. I just went over all three on-line copies of the manuals (N26C, N26U, and N260), and realized it was your work and that none of them had it.
I just went onto the website and added your drawing as an addendum to the manuals collection found there. So, now it’s there for anyone who needs a picture in the future. I hope that’s ok with you, let me know if not.
– Bob
P.S. It turned out I had to create an Onshape account before I could look at the CAD link you shared, but now I’m glad I did.
Hi Bob
I had to check, memory may be playing tricks.
Yes this sail info came out of the 26U owners manual on page 41.1 and 41.2.
The 26 C manual sail plan lists only the p and e. As you mentioned.
Back in the first years, 1980 1981 1982 there must have been a more detailed sail plan because hundreds of these sails were made for the production boats. I haven’t seen it. And unfortunately the people who might know the answer are not around anymore.
Tom
Tom Schoenhofer
647-200-4647
I wonder if anyone knows for sure.
I’m guessing that at least Doyle has it, since I’m under the impression that Ed Botterell was the original sailmaker. I understand that he started out as a Hood sailmaker, then moved his loft affiliation to Doyle.
– Bob
I have been talking off and on with the local Doyle loft and here is a quote from one of his emails:
I have confirmed that the sail would be a Botts design as all of his designs were passed on to our primary Cruising sail designer Bill Durant.
As I understand it, all Doyle lofts should have access to these designs.
Caveat: I think Doyle lofts all have access to each-other’s sail designs, so they probably have access to lots of other non-Botts designs, too. So specify if you want Botts. I don’t know if those are still the pinnacle of Nonsuch sails, but they once were and are highly respected. Others know a lot more about this than I do.
