Cedric, I would love to sit down with you over a couple beers, or what ever you drink, and argue this subject. Might be fun.
Love to know how many use the harness when they do go forward like you do.
Yes, I have read about those dangers, especially with the electric winch. Never heard anything negative about the WinchRite except the cost.
Cheers,
Butch
Butch Garren
Nonsuch 30 #196 “Whiskers II”
SIYC Slip 12
Solomons, MD
Can we see a picture of that?
Same as mine, Paul. I have a foot switch and hands not near the winch.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Cedric, I would love to sit down with you over a couple beers, or what ever you drink, and argue this subject. Might be fun.
Love to know how many use the harness when they do go forward like you do.
Yes, I have read about those dangers, especially with the electric winch. Never heard anything negative about the WinchRite except the cost.
Cheers,
Butch
Butch Garren
Nonsuch 30 #196 “Whiskers II”
SIYC Slip 12
Solomons, MD
I will be glad to do so the next time I am at my beloved vessel.
Right now I have just returned from a fine salted cod (“bacalhau”) dinner here in Oporto, Portugal and about to retire for the long journey home back to the States in the morning.
Good night and fair winds to all.…
Michael Jabara
Hobbes II - 1995 NS 354
San Rafael, California
Cedric, I would love to sit down with you over a couple beers, or what ever you drink, and argue this subject. Might be fun.
Love to know how many use the harness when they do go forward like you do.
Yes, I have read about those dangers, especially with the electric winch. Never heard anything negative about the WinchRite except the cost.
Cheers,
Butch
Butch Garren
Nonsuch 30 #196 “Whiskers II”
SIYC Slip 12
Solomons, MD
I’ve been following all of this right from the getgo. As soon as my cosmic buddy Butch joined, I had to throw in my two cents but 92 others beat me to it. I was going to say that I agree 100% with Butch. “It” should ALL happen from the cockpit. None of “It” should strain or injure anyone and, IMHO, one should not go forward unless one MUST.
Nonsuches are peculiar vessels. They were designed to be operated in a certain manner, by an excellent designer, Mark Ellis. It seems like jumping the main at the mast is a “quicker” way to get the thing up. OK - if speed is THAT important … Is it ?? It’s good exercise. So is lifting weights or tug of war or running. If you want to go forward to perform tasks on a Nonsuch, go ahead but at your peril. I don’t go forward (unless there is a problem and, yep, it happens so I have to go forward and I don’t like doing it).
I won’t go into the multitude of machines and assists for raising the sail. That can all be found in (seriously) thousands of posts on that subject. I have a “surgically enhanced” lower back so I use a small Hilti Hi-torque drill on my NS22 and it works perfectly. Many Nonsuchers use Milwaukee drills or WinchRites or even ($$$$) E-winchers. And, many use electric winches. And most of us follow the time-worn and safe and sensible routine of doing it all from the cockpit.
Robin - You are relatively new to Nonsuches and (once again, IMHO) I think it would be good practice to work on getting this task (and others) done from the cockpit so that you will never feel that certain tasks must be completed out of the cockpit. That doesn’t sound clear - what I mean is: When the chips are down on the water, be confident that, for safety’s sake, you can do it all from the safest place, the cockpit.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Yes to all that but I still like your mast cleat solution to stay the halyard at the mast till you can jump back in the cockpit and top the main sail Robin. Even if you learn to do it easier it will always be there if you need it.
Brian
Boat-less in New England
OK Butch and all. Of course I would not go forward in any kind of wind or seaway, especially single handed. I can raise the 26 Botts sail by hand by pulling on the halyard from the cockpit and winching the last two feet while steering but it hurts.
Jumping the halyard from the mast single handed is for those calm days or at anchor. Because, as you know, the Nonsuch does not want to stay head to wind for longer than a few seconds if it’s windy. Unless you’re blessed with one of those newfangled autopilots.
Anchor up, sail cover off, dingy down, boom freed up, soap on the mast track, and the reverse, must be done outside of the cockpit so saying one should never leave the cockpit is just not possible.
The halyard exits the mast at the perfect height, I think it was designed that way for a reason.
The reason I jump the halyard when I can is it is far less strain on the heart and the arthritic hands and busted shoulder and the little cam cleat on the mast makes this possible. Others have an electric winch I guess and this may be in my future as well.
Tom
26C #28 North Star
who might like to replace his 20 yr old Botts sail with something lighter and flatter soon.
Penetang
Wow, I was not expecting this much engagement on this topic. Thanks for everyone’s input, thoughts and wisdom.
Jeff and Tom, thanks for sharing pictures of your contraptions, really clever and inspiring.
Actually, Robin, I have this funny feeling that Tom developed " strain on the heart and the arthritic hands and busted shoulder" from jumping the sail at the mast. Or, maybe he jumped ON the sail at the mast. That would give anyone heart problems.
But, to be a bit serious, what I really enjoy about all of this chatter and this community is the wonderful and somewhat different approaches we all take to doing what we love. Yes, I’d rather be in the cockpit but others would rather be … wherever the H they want to be. None of us were born yesterday (a good and a bad thing) and, while some of us are newbies to Nonsuches (and/or boats in general), we all bring a ton of valuable ideas, approaches and brilliantly good sense to the table.
Now, only the luckier ones among us can keep sailing as many of us have to put our “babies” to sleep for 3 - 6 - 9 months. This discussion group helps us Northerners get through the winter (ugh … ) and makes counting the 180 + or - days less of a hardship.
Thanks, everyone.
Ernie A. in Toronto
I think you mean north-easterners Ernie.
My contributions to this is if I wanted to be perfectly safe, I would stay at home, in bed and under the covers, never going sailing!!
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
“A ship in the harbor is safe, but ships were not built to stay in harbors.” One of my favorite fortune cookie inserts.
Ned Chester
Pipe Dream NS30C #323
Portland, ME
I have attached a clam cleat, much like this one https://arthurbeale.co.uk/products/vertical-nylon-jam-cleat, to a curved aluminium plate that is fixed to the mast by the worm-drive clips that encircle the mast and which hold the aluminium fillet in place into which is screwed the sail track. If that doesn’t make sense I’ll take a photo next time I’m on board. It works well and can also be used to tension the halyard before raising the sail to prevent it from getting caught around the front of the mast.
Bob Illingworth
Nonsuch Luck 30U #367 (GBR1262T)
Moored Titchmarsh marina, Essex, UK; cruising the rivers of East Anglia, and, the North Sea.
I really disagree with those who claim electric winches are dangerous to use.
I recently installed a Lewmar electric winch and the button is 6’ away from the winch. No one is around the winch when in use, and I don’t see how fingers are at risk of getting mangled being so far away. I typically put three wraps on my winch and then into the self-tailer. With three wraps, the halyard will slip when any unusual resistance is encountered. The resistance usually comes from an unreleased reefing line.
In my opinion, the potential danger is more likely when using a winch rite or a heavy drill in the winch.
Jim
Lake St. Clair
NS 30 #350 “Sixpence”
My 30 NS U had a jam cleat already installed on the mast when I bought it. It’s similar to this one:
https://www.westmarine.com/schaefer-5inch-jam-cleat-open-base-cleat-for-3-8inch-line-129163.html
I don’t jump the halyard as a solo sailor so I don’t use it for raising the raising the main. I do find it useful for those times when I want to use the halyard to hoist a dingy on the forward deck though.
Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island
Ocean NavigatorApril 27, 2011“After a recent accident in Antigua where a woman lost one of her hands while operating a self-tailing winch Lewmar, the manufacturer of the winch, has issued a safety warning on their operation. According to Yachting Monthly, a woman was winching her husband up the mast of an Amel 54 in Antigua when the line developed an override. While trying to free the override one of the woman’s hands became entangled and was severed, while her other hand was also severely injured. Another sailor who came to assist also lost seven fingers, according to the report. Lewmar, Ltd. has subsequently issued a safety notice regarding the operation of self-tailing winches…”
https://oceannavigator.com/lewmar-issues-safety-warning-on-self-tailing-winches/
Michael Jabara
Hobbes II - 1995 NS 354
San Rafael, California
I remember that one, Mike. A close personal friend lost two fingers while hoisting his main on a 47 ft Island Packet. Self tailing power winches are not to be trifled with!!
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
I read a more detailed report of that accident. This was the not unusual situation where the husband did everything on the yacht and the wife just went along for the ride. Hoisting her husband up the mast was the first time she had used the electric winch. If I remember correctly the sailor who came to help had not used an electric winch before either.
As Jo says, they’re not to be trifled with. It seems to me that training in all the basic procedures is a must for everyone who puts to sea in a small boat.
Bob Illingworth
Nonsuch Luck 30U #367 (GBR1262T)
Moored Titchmarsh marina, Essex, UK; cruising the rivers of East Anglia, and, the North Sea.