I am helping a friend replace the halyard winch on his NS 30 Ultra. The winch functions well, but at 80 plus years old the 60 pound sail is a bit much to hoist with a Barient 23. Can anyone suggest a good replacement? I’m thinking of a either a Lewmar Ocean Series 40 or an Anderson 46 ST.
Many thanks,
Randy Gadikian
Phoenix
NS 26C #37
Buffalo, NY
Randy -
As the sail is 80 years old … he better replace that right away - the heck with the winch. (Or is the winch 80 years old ???) Or … is your buddy 80 years old ?
Regardless, if I owned an NS30 and was old enough to look forward to “body parts slowly heading south” (or maybe that is now the case), I’d be looking at a powered halyard winch or a Milwaukee drill with a WinchBit. Your buddy (and his/her body) deserves a bit of a break. With a powered winch, likely, you could go a size smaller than an unpowered one ?? Maybe ?
Just a thought. on my NS22, my lousy lower back LOVES my Hilti drill and WinchBit combo.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Plus one what Ernie said. My Milwaukee 28v runs my sail up in about 20 seconds with no work on my part. I also use it to easily sheet my sail under full press of wind.
Paul M
NS30U #211,Sandpiper,
Cowichan Bay, B.C.
Or you could do what I did, drop hints to your loving spouse that you’d like a nice Andersen electric wench, oops, sorry, winch. Worked for me !
Alan Steward
30C 144 MagnifiCat
Loyalist Cove Marina
Bath, Ontario
If money is not an object, and being over 80 myself, convince him to get a built-in halyard winch, non-self tailing. They are well worth the money. He will never regret it.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Is that a winch with a drum to take up and store the line? Push a button for up and another for down? Sounds very convenient, if a bit bulky.
Thanks for the input. Do you use that in conjunction with the original Barient 22?
If that question was for me Randy, yes, with the original Barient 22 and with the sheet winch as well. An advantage of the drill or one of the purpose built power handles is that they give feedback if there is a sudden increase in load before you tear a sail or anything like that. I have a friend who ripped a sail badly because his power winch gave no indication of the jam.
Randy
At 76, I have no problem recommending a Winchrite electric winch handle for the job. They cost about US$600 I think. One was supplied with my boat when I bought it in 2015 and it has served me well since then. It’s portable and charges easily from either 120V or 12V.
That’s why the SELF TAILING FEATURE on a which should NEVER be used whilst working with a halyard
Your friend was extremely lucky it was only the sail got ripped and not his fingers or other body parts
I have lost count of the number of times this advice/caution has been posted on our web/blog
Safe Sailing
Cedric
Single Malt
26C #207
Chester Nova Scotia
Not bulky at all, Brian and not unusual to see on a 30. In photo .001, it’s the small drum on the port side left. In .002 this is the assembly showing the drum and the motor which intrudes slightly into the cabin overhead.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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[/details]I’ve seen that advice here before Cedric but my friend was in no danger because his switch was mounted out of reach of the winch and more to the point has enough sense not to get his body parts near an operating machine.
I have a hard time understanding how people have that accident.
Joe, how do you operate a non-self tailing power winch single handed? A foot switch?
I have personally met and know people who have lost digits with those self tailing winches. There was an article on this subject in one of the sailing magazines several years ago. Mine is a foot switch on the cabin sole
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Perhaps having spent my working life around machines explains my disbelief that this could happen. I can see a non-self tailer working with a foot switch though. Good one.
I’ll be keeping my drill though.
Mount the ON switch on the vertical bulkhead below winch. Position it where one’s knee can operate it leaving both hands to “tail” the halyard
Note you only require one button - on when it is depressed and off when released
Safe Sailing
Cedric
Single Malt 26C # 207
Chester Nova Scotia
Stupidity exists in all times and places. I attended a vocational HS in NYC where we used machinery like lathes, etc. One of the first things our instructors told us was to be aware of clothing getting wrapped around a lathe or drill press. A new principal thought an upgrade to the looks of the student body was a mandatory wearing of ties. Go figure!!
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
With the drill and self tailer I can have one hand on the drill and the other on the wheel. I find that raising sail under autopilot in any wind is less successful than steering by hand.
So, we are saying that one should never use the self-tailer on the powered halyard winch (which is a personal choice but, yes, dumb accidents can and do happen. I need TWO hands on my drill and do use my auto pilot to steer into the wind. I have a small Lewmar 16 ST halyard winch.).
What is new is that if you use a powered halyard winch WITHOUT the self-tailer, it is best to wear your old school tie. Now I get it - that makes sense.
Ernie A. in Toronto (where we wear TIES)
Many thanks for your input. There certainly are many opinions on this topic. Here is my summary.
#1 No ties will be permitted while sailing, an exception will be made for a well tied bow-tie.
#2 A Barient 22 with an appropriate mechanical aid is a sufficient for raising the sail on a Nonsuch 30. An appropriate mechanical aid would be a Winchrite or a sufficiently powerful right angle drill with an appropriate bit.
Randy Gadikian
Phoenix
Nonsuch 26C #37
Buffalo, NY
One caveat about the drill Randy. When drills are put in reverse the entire force is taken by the little screw that retains the chuck. Any major strain will break the screw and this is seen as a drawback to drills being used on two speed winches.
The answer is simply to use red Locktite on the chuck thread, or as I have, eliminate the chuck and red Locktite the bit right onto the spindle.
Both solve the problem.