The Ice chest on my N30U is apx Eight cubic feet.
The original cold plate has been replaced with an air cooled compressor mounted in the port lazarette and a suitable evaporation plate in the box.. The LiFPo house battery (two 12vdc 1,200watt in parallel) is not enough to cool for 24 hours. The Compressor manufacturers rough estimate suggests that in the tropics the installed combination should use apx 50AH/day. That would use apx 25% of my house batteries. The same mfg states this is with 4" of foam insulation. Judging by the cover there is only about one inch of insulation.,
Therefore
I am determined to reinsulate this box.
Has anyone out there successfully completed a project like this?
Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Fran Cichowski
Southpaw N30U #300
Spicers Marina - Noank, CT
It’s covered on pp. 32-33 of the New Nonsuch Owners Quick Guide, downloadable from the INA’s www.Nonsuch.org website.
The basic concept is to drill a series of holes vertically up each side of the compartment’s interior, then work your way from bottom up inserting the tube from a urethane foam spray can to blow in the foam.
Log on, open the MEMBERS tab, click on MANUALS, and you’ll find it in the top row.
I did this project on my first Nonsuch. Based on the experience, I’d emphasize taking its advice about foam expansion very seriously. The advice is to brace the interior walls so they don’t bow out, and to add the foam slowly – wait between each injection. Each injection should be just enough to get a bit of foam to come out the next hole above.
The foam expands a lot. If you add too much at a time, too quickly, it will expand more that the holes above can allow to ooze out. This will not only give you an uneven fill, but will also create a lot of pressure.
That pressure can cause things to bow and/or find places you’d never think of for the foam to escape. In my case, having done the job before the manual came out and not knowing this trick, I ended up with foam oozing out into the cupboard and literally encasing the bottom halves of a set of beer mugs.
This description may make it sound scarier than it actually is. In my case, the bowing was cosmetic but not structural, and the beer mugs could be pried loose and the excess cut away.
Hi Fran,
Soave’s compressor had a near death experience last season and I did a bunch of research with an eye towards replacement. I concluded that if I HAD to replace it immediately, a portable fridge like the ones made by Dometic made more sense ( for me ) than struggling with the marine options currently available and the current poorly insulated box.
Turned out I was able to resuscitate Soave’s compressor for about $80 ( set of gauges and some refrigerant ) so I didn’t have to buy a portable fridge.
My compressor is an Isotherm. It’s mounted in Soave’s engine compartment forward of the port lazarette. I also noticed surprisingly high power consumption and started investigating. Some things I noticed :
On hot days when Soave is closed up and the fridge is running the engine compartment got crazy hot ( 115-120 ºF ).
Cabin temp on hot days with the boat closed was around 100ºF.
Soave’s fridge struggled to cool to 38ºF. Below is a graph of the last 7 days. 24th and 25th outside temps were 100 or so during the day. Yea, I’m a nutso data guy… probably the only boat in the basin with live monitors running 24x7.
On humid days condensation formed on the outside of the fridge doors.
My current situation :
I have access to shore power, so power consumption isn’t an issue while docked.
Not planning to do extensive cruising this season.
Just bought a new fair lead collar and would like to get a canvas cover for winter storage. ( boat rich / dollar poor )
I’ve decided to :
Drop a block of ice in if I’m away from shore power.
Place a couple floatation cushions on top of the cooler doors for added insulation.
Possibly add a ventilation fan to my engine compartment to moderate the temp on hot days if shore power is available. Mostly to reduce aging of stuff in the engine compartment.
Wait to see how others address their refrigeration needs as new options become available… and there are many.
There are some Youtubes of folks that glued insulation to the inside of their fridges, the ones I saw didn’t provide before and after data about power consumption. My guess based on the insulation Soave’s fridge has, an extra 2" on the bottom, and sides might get 20% improvement. If I pull out the old insulation and use a modern closed cell foam I might cut energy consumption to half… but that would be a really big effort.
Another NS33 I’ve crewed on has a compressor driven from it’s engine… maybe one could be fitted on Southpaw ?
Stay cool,
Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT
For Google Group users… On the Discourse group Bob Neches posted a reference to the New Owners guide pg 32 that describes how to inject foam by drilling holes. This process is MUCH simpler than replacing the old insulation. It would probably cut energy consumption in half.
Many Thanks Bob for pointing this out.
Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT
The new owner’s guide was wonderful.
This has become a cheap and easily done project.
The only question I have left is the hole pattern.
The transverse section clearly shows a line of holes.
Starting 6" above the bottom and every 6" to the top
The question is!
Is this a single line central in the box?
OR
Are there several lines of holes?
If so what is the Fore/Aft spacing?
AND
Are there holes on the forward and aft walls?
Fran, my boat has Nova Kool refrigeration, which consists of a cold plate (box) in the cooler, and outside three piece components. These components are mounted on a shelf just under the galley cabinet and behind the stove, and therefore close to the fridge box. Refrigeration components installed in cockpit locker area suffer inefficiency from engine heat and distance to the cooler.
I don’t know the answers to your questions about the best way to do it. FWIW, when I did it, I did one line of holes on each side of the icechest, roughly centered. Because I hadn’t seen the advice summarized in the New Owners Quick Guide, I was a bit hasty about the foam injection. Given all the places the foam came out as a result, I’m pretty confident that one set per side is enough, though. Just take it slow.
This particular section in the New Nonsuch Owners Quick Guide was taken from a set of xeroxes I inherited in the boat docs on one of the Nonsuches I’d bought. As near as I can tell, the original sources were copied out of some older issues of the INA Nonsuch Update newsletter.
Since there seem to be a couple of people interested, I dug out a file on my computer where I’d scanned them in. It runs about five pages. I just finished posting it on the website under MEMBERS TIPS & PROJECTS.
Fran, on my 26C I went the route of removing the old insulation and installing new pink board insulation. I filled in gaps with spray foam insulation. I increased the top insulation to 3” and have another layer I place on top of the box. The compression lives under the galley sink. It gets warm under the sink which hurts performance. It took two full days to do the work and I probably could have achieved the same results by using the spray foam method mentioned by others. With a lot less cuts and bruises.
There are holes in the fore and aft sides of the ice box as well. I think you need more than one line of holes per side. Make sure you seal the holes after you are done. Polyurethane insulation will absorb moisture and when it does it looses it insulation value.
Adler Barber was acquired by Waeco ( a German Company ) and then Dometic acquired Waeco.
All three have a great reputation in the marine and RV markets.
The trend these days is away from remote compressors because their longevity is influenced by quality of install and maintenance. If properly installed and maintained the old stuff lasts a long time.
( HERE ) is a link to the current marine offerings.
I was actually thinking of an electric cooler ( or two ) cleverly integrated into existing cabinetry on Soave, if Soave’s IsoTherm compressor bites the dust. ( HERE ) are the cooler options offered by Dometic.
I may have several years before I need to decide. In the meantime foaming Soave’s icebox seems like a good move.
Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT
The Nova Kool LT201/211 with a RT4 is effectively the same as the Adler Barber unit referred to by Joe, and is still available to buy. You can buy it as a kit, and install it yourself. https://www.novakool.com/conversion-units-info
Mine was installed behind the stove so that it is right next to the reefer. That may be why it lasted so long. However, it does make it noisier at night while sleeping
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Behind the stove is a very interesting place
If I ever get to the second phase,
Following the insulation install
I’ll check that out.
A quick look suggests;
UP High it might not interfere with the stove swing
AND
That is space otherwise totally lost.
Under sink is good for the frig but I need that space
Here’s a couple of photos of the refrigeration unit mounted on a shelf behind stove on my NS30U. In one you can just see it in the gap between the back of the stove and below countertop. It came with the boat, installed by PO. The freezer box is great, I can make ice cubes, and freeze meat when away cruising. I don’t find the noise very noticeable, it’s just a computer fan.
