Nonsuch 22 differences

Newsgroups Archive Prior to 2025
1

Hello,

New to group. I am thinking about purchasing a N22. My wife and I are 80 years old and about two years ago sold our conventional 26ft sloop and went over to the dark side, buying a 21 foot Ranger Tug. It turns out I miss sailing very much, and am thinking a N22 might make sense as a more manageable sailboat for us.

I have read somewhere that the N22 initially had design problems of some sort that were resolved with later boats. Could someone tell me about what was changed and when.

Thanks

Larry

2

Hi Larry.

I owned “Whiskers” NS 22 #30 for about 7 years. I loved that boat and I never encountered any design flaws. I now own “Whiskers II” NS 30 #196. I have sailed a couple of NS 26s. Here’s what I can tell you about these boats based on my limited amount of thinking.

Regarding sailing the boats I find that all three are easy to sail. If you are going to primarily day sail all three are fantastic. If you are going to do some overnighters, the NS 22 can get a little small inside (depends how much you are on love). For cruising the NS 22 and 30 are great. The NS offers more room.

I bought my NS 30 because it was in good shape and was taken care of and the price was right. Taking everything into consideration such as, I do a lot of day sailing, some few night cruises and a desire to do a few longer cruises I would give the NS 26 a real close look. If just to do day sailing, the NS 22 is a wonderful boat. After giving the NS 22 and NS 26 high grade marks, I would not give up my 30. I can tell you though, the Nonsuch is the boat you want.

Here is what I suggest. If you live in and area where there are Nonsuches, see if you can catch a ride. I am in Solomons, MD and would be glad to take you out for a sail. There is a NS 22 here for sale and Bob would gladly take you out. We have a Nonsuch 26 here and I am sure Al would let you look.

About 10 years ago, I wrote a short story about a trip my young grandson and I took on my NS 22 with some very exciting moments. If you want I’ll send to you.

If you are looking for a 22, remember that some are tiller/outboard, diesel/wheel and outboard/wheel. Maybe other combos also. The one here is wheel/outboard. As far as I am concerned, one is no better than the other.

Cheers

Butch

Butch Garren

Nonsuch 30, #196

Whiskers II,

Solomons, MD

3

Larry,

I owned NS #12 Blue Heron for several years in Solomons, MD. I agree with everything Butch said. My boat had the diesel, wheel combination. It was an early production model and I never had any issues. I would recommend a wheel over a tiller. If you get into some wind with too much sail up, there can be a lot of weather helm. I now own NS26U #198 Jade. I got it because I did want to do some more extensive cruising and the 26 just has a lot more room. My friend and I sailed it from Annapolis, MD to Boothbay Harbor Maine in 6-1/2 days (mostly motor sailing) it included a 36 hour offshore stretch from Cape May, NJ to Montauk, NY. Never felt like we had overextended ourselves. Both are easy to sail singlehanded.

Good luck with your search. I would be happy to take you out on mine. Unfortunately, I have to pull the boat out next week. Short season here. Sigh.

David

David Darmstadter
NS26U #198 Jade
Boothbay Harbor, ME

4

Hi Larry -

I, too, second the opinions of Butch. After all, it was a lovely video that he shot of a Nonsuch 22 that convinced me to buy MOUSTACHES, N22 (tiller, outboard) Hull #56 out of a total of 58 N22s that were built. I bought the boat in 2012 and consider her my “windsurfer with toaster oven, air con, flat screen TV, etc.”. I love this boat. Sandra and I do overnighters and don’t bother with moving cushions, making up bunks and stepping on each others’ heads to "go pee’"at 3 am. We keep both bunks seperate (and hold hands). This little ship is supremely comfortable and effortless to sail (but fun, responsive and solid). It’s a Nonsuch - it’s unique.

I have never heard of any design “issues” that had to be rectified. Granted, some boats have 8 or 13 hp Westerbekes below. Others (I think, 28 out of the 58 built) have outboards. I have always prefered a tiller and, so help me, if I owned an N30, I’d have a tiller. Simpler, more responsive. But, that’s a totally personal preference. I do love my acres of storage below (no engine, no shaft, no leakage, no smell, etc.) and my electric-start and electric-tilt 9.8 Tohatsu that pushes the boat at over 6 knots (a bit too fast). It’s removable and WAY cheaper to buy and maintain. But, that’s also a personal choice and some sailors cannot bear the look of a sailboat with a motor hanging off the stern. I use a Hilti drill and a winch bit to raise my 300+ sq. ft. sail in a few seconds. You could use a 2-speed winch or a powered one. Sailing a Nonsuch is an uncomplicated experience (especially tacking - just turn the boat).

My boat weighs 6000 lbs. I single hand all the time. And, she’s a piece of cake to cast off and return to my slip. Except for the fact that an N26 has a much bigger sail to raise (tho there are “aids”), it is, in my opinion, a snap to single hand and, I’d even say the same for larger Nonsuches. And, I do like to reef my little boat in any wind stronger than around 15 knots (which is also dead easy and quick) but the larger ones can handle a lot more wind before they have to be reefed. A nicely-loaded N26 can weigh 10,000 lbs and, just maybe, that’s too much of a strain for 80 year-old biceps to handle when leaving or arriving at your slip or mooring. But, good lord, is there ever a mass of interior room on that 26-footer !! My N22 is fathomous inside but the bigger boats are huge down below. It really depends on how much room you want (or will need).

I will not, yet again, list the “mod cons” on my boat (to the relief of all of the readers) but,I 'll bet, if you search my name or “Moustaches” or “N22” in the search engine to this forum, you’ll, likely, find some stuff on my boat, Butch’s former boat and a host of other N22s.

It’s a wonderful boat - highly recommended. Sheer fun and goes, like hell, on a reach. They are very, very well built … among the best anywhere.

I hope you end up with one. (Don’t tell anyone but I LOVE the really big Ranger Tugs - not now but … maybe one day … after I rob a bank).

Good luck. Oh , and Happy Canadian Thanksgiving. Where are you, by the way ??

Ernie A,. in Toronto

5

Hopefully you’ll join our Nonsuch community. A helpful hint, Larry – note how we sign our posts.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

6

Larry,
A few years ago there was an article in Sail Magazines about a couple, Eliot and Patti Daley, who purchased a 22 named “Joy”. Here is a link to the article

sometimes-downsizing-is-harder-than-it-sounds

Below is a copy of an article I found in the October 2012, Canadian Yachting Magazine. It suggests that there were changes in the design of the 22 over the course of the build period. The only 22’s that I have seen and been on are of the original design. I must say that I never thought that they had a problem of scale. The 26, especially the classic version has more usable storage space than the 22.

"NONSUCH 22

The Nonsuch series of cat-rigged sailboats was one of the success stories of the 1980s. The hulls that many thought to be “funny-looking” have now found acceptance and a full range is produced from 36 feet down to this refurbished 22-footer.

Although the modification of existing boats is usually initiated by the owner (as discussed in the other part of my column this month), the Nonsuch 22 you see here is a transformation by the designer. The original 22, of which almost 50 were produced, followed the tried and tested Nonsuch formula - a huge interior, standing headroom and high price tag. While the prescription for success worked flawlessly on the larger boats, the 22 had a few problems of scale that have now been corrected.

Full standing headroom is difficult to disguise in a small boat and the original 22 was just too tall for its beam. While the lowered sheer still doesn’t give the boat a sleek look, it does turn it into a pleasant, cute little boat.

The loss in headroom is a calculated, but not significant, risk. There are few boats of this length in which you can stand up. The ever-popular Shark (designed by George Hinterhoeller) is a fine example of a small boat with limited headroom and no shortage of dedicated followers.

As with most boats this size, the market the original 22 found itself in was mainly composed of first-time buyers with little knowledge to let them justify the 22’s price. I was amazed when Ellis reminded me that the original 22 had an enclosed head and full galley. No wonder the price and freeboard were high.

The new layout uses the space under the cockpit seats for quarter berths. Small sink and stove modules sit across from each other near the middle of the boat, with storage under each. Cooking simple meals will be no problem for a weekend or weeklong cruise.

The table will drop down to form a large double berth, although in that position the head becomes inaccessible. Heads are always a problem in a boat this size, for although they are a definite necessity, there is little room for them. The companionway door will be the key to privacy when using this head.

Ellis and his Nonsuch 22 fans have always been happy with the freestanding cat rig on the boat, so that won’t change. It continues to offer the simplicity of one sail, and one control. The wishbone boom serves the same purpose as a traditional boom and vang, but without the nuisance of hitting your head during maneuvers. Because of the angle of the wishbone, relative to the sail, it pushes down as well as out, helping to maintain sail shape on a reach.

Ellis has made some sensible alterations to an already successful design. He hopes that more people who join the sport of sailing will do so with a Nonsuch 22."

(end of article)

I don’t know if it is the weather or the water out here, but we had an individual who sailed his 30 solo in to his 90’s. Dick Lane who is in his 90’s continues to sail his 26 solo and about 2 years ago sailed solo from Port Townsend to Maple Bay and back. A round trip of around 120 nautical miles. I have been told that we had a least one couple that sailed a 33 into their 90’s. I am not suggesting that you search out a 30 or 33. I simply mention these individuals as evidence that the Nonsuch class of boat is easy to sail. Both the 22 and 26 are handier around the dock and the loads on the lines are lower.

The first rendezvous that I attended was my first time to see a 22. The 22 had a 9.9 hp Yamaha two stroke outboard and tiller steering. She was a lovely little boat and with her outboard motored faster than my 26 with the 13 hp Westerbeke.

Good luck with the search.

Mark Powers

La Reina 26C

Vancouver, B.C.

7

How interesting, Mark !!

Thanks for this info. I have always mused about the possibility of quarter berths under the (huge) cockpit, especially given that my boat has an outboard and there is gobs of space down there. But, my boat is #56 out of 58 built. My boat was built in 1986. I am not aware of any N22 with these changes that Mark E. proposed (or that came to fruition).

I hinged the table and it just swings up and out of the way for sleeping. It is not built (or required) to become part of the king-sized (seriously) bed that can be made up. It was designed to be removed and stowed in the head, against the wall (a true pain in the …). As I said, we’ve kept it at 2 bunks i.e. each settee is nice, long bunk.

An N26, 4’ longer and way wider, is impressively large below, though. And, it’s a truly great boat. There are lots of older sailors (80 and upward) who still have a ball in their N26s (and N22s).

I guess it depends on just how big you want to go.

Take care.

Ernie A. in Toronto

8

Here is a link to the actual article. It has pictures of a couple of 22s but they look like originals to me. The article was written in 2012 so it looks like Mark E. made the changes in the design after production ceased. It is likely that there are no 22’a built to the new design. My understanding is that Mark. E. would sell a license to build the boat. The builders did not buy and own the design. So if you don’t need to stand up and are wondering what to do with the balance in your bank account you could buy a license and contract with a builder to make you a brand new one of a kind Nonsuch 22.

Mark Powers
La Reina 26C
Vancouver, B.C.

9

Oops, here is the link.

file:///Users/rmp/Desktop/Sailing/Boats/Nonsuch%2022/Nonsuch%2022.webarchive

Mark Powers
LA Reina 26C
Vancouver, B.C.

10

Having recently interviewed the designer, Mark Ellis, for articles in Good Old Boat and the INA Update just coming out, I can confirm Mark’s comment in which he said: “My understanding is that Mark. E. would sell a license to build the boat. The builders did not buy and own the design.”

Ellis told me that his business model throughout his career has been to take a royalty on each boat sold, unlike most designers who get paid up front and sign away their claim. He also holds legal rights to the name, “Nonsuch,” which cannot be used without his authorization (which the International Nonsuch Association requested and received).

– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C #143

11

Mark, that is the weirdest link I ever saw but apart from that it does not work…

Cheers

Brian McCuaig. NS30u
Whitby, Ontario

“Having a yacht is reason for being more cheerful than most."

12

Brian,
I highlight the entire address, right click on the mouse and then select “go to address in new tab”. It works on my computer. I have not been able to pull up the article with a Google search. If the link still does not work let me know.

Mark Powers
La Reina 26C
Vancouver, B.C.

13

Hi, I think the link doesn’t work for others is because it is pointing to a file on Mark’s computer. The link says … /rmp/desktop/sailing… which I am guessing is a folder called Sailing on Mark’s Desktop. Does RMP stand for “R. Mark Powers”?

Regards

14

You are probably right on both counts. Now people know the secret location of my boat stuff.

Mark Powers
La Reina 26C
Vancouver, B.C.

15

I think the choice may boil down to what you intend to do . Day sail in mostly protected water, a 22 would do the job . Cruising for more expended periods the 26 offers more space.