I am new to the group and new to Nonsuch boats and their mystic. I am looking at a 22 and doing research towards possibly buying one.
One article I read seemed to state there was a design change in the 22 and mentioned the original design was too high for its beam and adjustments were made in later boats.
My question is, are there two models of the 22’ boat and if so, how significant any changes that may have been made are?
I am working on providing a link to the article. Any comments on this or any aspect of the 22 would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Hey PT9 -
First, let us know who y’are and where y’are. That helps a lot. I sail NS22 #56 “Moustaches”. I call it a windsurfer with dockside A/C, flat-screen TV, microwave, toaster oven, coffee maker and memory foam bunks. I love to sail the hell out of it. (Easy, because I sail like hell, at best.)
I believe that originally Hinterhoeller built 58 of these wonderful vessels. Some had small inboard diesels while the other were set up for outboards. That was the only difference in the “original” boats. Eventually, the designer, Mark Ellis, came up with a design that created 2 single “pilot berths” under the cockpit. These would eat into all or most of the space presently occupied by the starboard lazarette and port lazarettes. This all came a bit “later” and I am not sure as to whether any of these boats were ever built.
Nonsuches are, to say the least, built to go to war in (and win, to boot). The quality is superb. They stand up to quite a beating (read as: Hurricane Ian and others) and are a blast to sail. They truly hold their monetary value and are are adored by their owners.
The Nonsuch 22 has a massive, dry cockpit, a galley, a genuine private and comfy washroom (head) and a dinette that converts to a bed that is gigantic. Beat that in any other 22’ boat.
Highly recommended (if you can find one).
Ernie A. in Toronto
The broker and designer that were cited in this 2002 article, Dave Harris and Mark Ellis, are still around.
I sent a note to them drawing their attention to the article and asking for their comments.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
‘ The broker and designer that were cited in this 2002 article, Dave Harris and Mark Ellis, are still around.’
I wonder if they appreciate as much as we do what they have wrought.
Brian
Boat-less in New England
Thanks . I have fo
I hit a wrong key.
I have found a 22 and hope to close the deal soon. I am beginning to think there was confusion by the author of that article with the 26 model which I believe came later with a different layout.
I was concerned that there may have been a 22 with a lower shear line and cabin as the article implies but have found nothing that supports that. The strong endorsements by owners have really impressed me, and I hope to join that group soon, and will have many questions in the future.
Hello pt9 -
Can you tell us what the hull# of this boat is and, if possible, the name and location and if it is an outboard or and inboard diesel ??
We are curious … especially us NS22 owners.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Pt9,
Best of luck with this acquisition. Of course, make sure you get a good survey. Don’t let a few discrepancies discourage you, as these are old boats and some owners may not be maintenance experts, however these are well built boats and as I learned they respond nicely to repairs and upgrades. They were built by traditional standards and shortcuts that saved manufacturer’s cost were not a part of the build. They are exceptional not only in build quality but in terms of performance they behave very nicely.
I have not sailed on any other Nonsuch sizes, but I am very pleased with my 22 and she feels right.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
PT9,
You might enjoy downloading “ADVICE FOR POTENTIAL BUYERS,” found by clicking on the “INA INFORMATION” tab at https://www.Nonsuch.org
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
Hi Ernie,
Just a wild guess 
Hint: # 9 US Pacific NW
Still a big fan of the 22.
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
This just in from Dave Harris, of Harris & Ellis Yacht Brokers, one of the gentleman referenced in the 2002 article:
I don’t recall any 22s with quarter berths and you would have to check with Mark as to any height change in freeboard/sheer. Sorry. Perhaps ask our 22 owners if they report any freeboard difference or quarter berths?
Interesting.
Dave
Haven’t heard back from Mark Ellis as of yet. I’ll pass along anything that comes back. However, IMHO, since the article claimed that Dave was going to be selling them and he doesn’t know anything about it, changes to the boat probably never happened.
Another bit of evidence suggesting that any revised 22 models are mythical is that the article mentions N22s having been built in the original form up to the “late 80’s”. The article was written in 2002, and implies that the changes were being made at that time and would go into production thereafter. The INA records (anyone with a copy of the annual Nonsuch Registry can double-check me on this) show the last N22, #58 as having been built in 1987. This was well before my time with Nonsuch and the INA, but I’d be surprised if it turned out that any more could have been built without the INA finding out about it and recording it.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
Bob -
I am in total agreement with you on all of this. I am unaware of any other NS22s beside the “original” 58 boats. As I mentioned, i own #56 and she was built in December of 1986, according to the builder’s certificate signed by George Hinterhoeller.
Ernie A. in Toronto
PS - Mike and Ashley … Thanks !!
The impression I had from reading the available information about this topic was that when the proportions of the 30 were applied to a 22 foot design it was ungainly in appearance (the deck house was too high) so the final design was a re-do to enhance the appearance. When comparing the 22 design to the bigger boats it seems that more freeboard was introduced to allow a shorter deck house and still maintain cabin headroom. So, I’m thinking that the original drawing was never brought to production.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
That sounds like the most logical explanation. I am impressed with the group’s thoroughness though a little concerned at Ernie’ s desire for the hull # and location while I am still in the process of closing the deal. The fact is I do not know the hull number as I am waiting for the owner to find the time to meet, and for me to be able to look the boat over inside and out.
From a dock side it is apparent it has been neglected for some time due to work commitments and health issues of the present owners. My goal is to buy this boat and get it back into the shape it deserves to be in. I am an experienced boat owner, but new to the Nonsuch fleet. One of my favorite sailing memories is trading tacks with a 30’ Nonsuch up the Rumb line one moon lit night in a Southern Straits of Georgia Race back in the day.
Don,
I sense your excitement at the prospect of a new acquisition. There really is something enchanting about these Nonsuch boats, and I think it requires a lifetime of sailing to really understand that. I’ve been through a lot of boats and a lot of boat work, but I don’t think I could have any more of that necessary enthusiasm to keep on going if it weren’t for the affection I feel for my 22. I will be quite happy if she proves to be my last boat.
Her name “Magic Time” was derived from the Van Morrison song of the same title. “Take me back for a while” is the feeling I get when I feel the press of sail, and it’s the same joy as it has always been, as if time has stood still for a while.
I sincerely hope you join our group of owners.
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
Ok, let me make it official. Here’s is designer Mark Ellis’ statement on the Nonsuch 22 design story:
I don’t recall Nonsuch 22s built with quarter berths. And, I did at some point in the distant past discuss a cuddy cabin, large cockpit, lower sheer height, version of the 22 with some dealers, but this was never done. I hope that I’ve provided closure on this important issue…
So, there you have it.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
Hi pt9 -
I call you that because I don’t know your name. Let me say that I am very pleased that you may become the owner of one of these terrific 22 footers.
I have found this whole thread quite interesting because the subject of whether a “redesigned” NS22 does exist (or was even built) has always intrigued me. I was surprised when I first read somewhere that Mark Ellis had conceived of this as I felt that it would eat into the sales of the NS26. Plus, there is a special feeling that comes with sailing a great boat with a pedigree of which only 58 were ever built (and most are still around).
I asked about the hull # and your location not to “pry” but just in case other members of this group know anything about the particular vessel that you are checking out. This a very common practice in this group (and, likely, in other owner groups and associations), especially in the pre-purchase stage. Sure as shootin’, someone has already submitted a wild guess as to which boat it might be. This practice is handy because someone may know of something “less than good” that has befallen a certain boat as, to be fair, many of them are 40+ years old. Some of our boats have gone through hurricanes, floods, very bad groundings and all kinds of disasters. Most of them have been properly repaired. Most of them …
Some of us know of boats that have been stored, on the hard, over winter (with unstayed masts up and flapping in the wind), for decades. Info like that is good to have because, guaranteed, the foredeck has suffered big-time from the strain of the mast bending and the boat not being able to “move with it” like it can when in the water. Foredeck rebuilds are no fun and tend to cost $$$$$$.
In short, the INA is a tight little group where info on all of our boats is openly shared and, as the expression goes, someone may “know something”.
One more thing - There have been cases of those who purchased NS22s who have gone on to rue the fact that, just maybe, they didn’t consider buying an NS26. Compared to an NS22, the 26 is a majestic ship. Four feet longer, twice as heavy, wider and massively larger inside, yet easy to handle, etc. And yet, the 22 is the largest and most comodious 22 afloat (that sails beautifully, looks good and is a joy to own).
Good luck with this purchase. I’m glad you know boats and will be aware of what you are getting into.
All the best,
Ernie A. in Toronto
PS - I’ve never considered this but maybe your name IS pt9 ???
Hi Ernie,
You’re quite right.
Hindsight is 20/20. (or literally 2020 yr. in my case)
We we bought our boat (formerly named Haywire). We did research about the generic form factor and had pictures and video to “survey” the boat. We bought it across the border during covid so we couldn’t actually see it in person. I had questions about certain “deficiencies” that (not knowing the P.O. you’d never know if the answers were honest. In my case, like with most Nonsuch’s, the owner was conscientious/honest…and I’ve done many upgrades and fixes since.
In the intervening years, I’m flabbergasted by how many INA members had direct knowledge of the boat and it’s owner and treatment.
In retrospect, I would have asked this forum (pre-purchase) specifically if anyone knew the boat, it’s story and any issues. Guaranteed that someone in this group has been a part of this boats 40 year life. The fact that we post our name, location and boat keeps the dialogue open and honest with accountability. This gives you a wealth of background specific to “your” boat and gets you prepared for what upkeep may be needed first.
Anonymous posting is discouraged in the forum because the benefits of openness and accountability fosters honesty and the ability to connect with members close by who can help…or in this case…may know something.
While we missed out on this aspect of the forum pre-purchase, the helpfulness and proxy experiences of the owners group has saved us money, inspired innovations and upgrades, and answered 100’s of questions we never knew we’d ask.
All part of why owning a Nonsuch is a premium yachting experience.
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.
Thanks for the notes and comments. When I look at the comments I have posted I am seeing my full name as a header. If there is something I neglected or didn’t know how to do let me know.
I am having trouble getting to the new document for new owners that came out on the 10th so it may very well be I have something wrong in settings. I have not joined the Nonsuch owners group yet so maybe that’s it. I find this group very informative and hope to be a small part of it in the future.
Thanks, Don
Hi Don,
Re identity:
My upstairs computer shows your name. My downstairs computer shows pt9baja…
So there’s a settings issue somewhere to be sure.
This is why we use a signature as our sign-off. (name , location, boat model)
We hope your dreams come true and your next summer the best ever.
Cheers,
Mike and Ashley Read
NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl
Bath, Ont.