Rob,
Can you take a piece of soft wood and a hammer and try to tap the boot down around the circumference before you add the top clamp. I can see the reason for the top clamp to keep water out. If the boot is stiff enough I don’t see a reason for a clamp at the bottom.
Brian Cayer
Spirit~Wind
N30U 419
Westbrook, Ct
Rob -
I am just wondering if the wood shims are too high ?? That sounds really dumb except I ask because I forget how LOW mine were (on an NS 22). I agree fully with Brian - a clamp on the top part should do it. And, try a bit of soapy water on the casting to act as a lubricant before you pound the boot down. It does needs to cover the gap. In fact, Rob, my mast boot barely covered the gap but I did run a clamp on it - it kinda fit but it sure sealed things up.
What I’ve done is to join 2 clamps together in order to make ONE long one - like join 2 x 24" ones to make a 44" or 46" single clamp. It works.
Ernie A. in Toronto
If you take any waves over the bow, or in a heavy rainstorm going to weather, you need a seal at the bottom.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
That’s a good point about the wedges, Ernie. The lip on the inside of the wedges should be touching the lip on the partners.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
That’s a good point about the wedges, Ernie. The lip on the inside of the wedges should be touching the lip on the partners.
Joe V
What does that mean to the layman?
Brian C
Hi Joe,
Not sure what you mean by “The lip on the inside of the wedges should be touching the lip on the partners”? Am I looking above or below deck to check this ?
The wedges on my boat are look like nylon and are probably less than a few years old. The boot looks to be about the same age. Soave’s PO paid for a ton of restoration and maintenance that was done by a well respected boatyard, but it is unclear if they understood the specifics of the NonSuch design. The input from this group has been valuable as I try to learn enough to provide proper maintenance.
For me, the “boot doubts” started when I noticed photos with clamps on mast boots … Soave doesn’t have clamps on her mast boot. Now I see the wedges are preventing the boot from sliding down to achieve more than .25" overlap with the deck collar.
On Soave none of the wedges can be driven any further to allow the boot to slide further down. The head of the wedges are all in contact with the mast collar. ( shown in photo of may earlier post)
The 1.24" measurement I mentioned is from the top of the wedge to the bottom of what I’m calling the wedge head.
The bottom edge of the boot looks like it was cut. I believe the motive may have been to allow the wedges to be inserted without removing the mast collar which prevents the boot from sliding up. ( see bottom photo in this post ) If this is the case, I wonder if the wedges are indeed placed in “appropriate slots around the mast collar” as explained in the instructions. Are the wedges keyed so that they stay in the same radial position or do they depend on friction from being tapped in?
Thanks for any thoughts on how deep I need to go to understand if I have more to worry about than sealing the bottom of the mast boot.
Rob Cohen
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Westport, CT
Sad that I’m now replying to my own posts… but I woke up this morning ( after dreaming about mast wedges ) and think I know what Joe means by “partner”.
With an even number of wedges spaced equally around the collar, each wedge has a “partner” across the collar that creates force opposite. In the diagram I posted last night the wedge at 12:30 ( think clock ) opposes the wedge at 6:30.
In the drawing the bolt and collar reinforcement gussets are different from my photo. The diagram has 12 bolts and 12 reinforcement gussets. My collar has 12 bolts and 6 reinforcement gussets. My wedges are placed equally spaced and aligned with six gussets and also equal distant between gussets.
I think I’ll add the clamps now and schedule a mast inspection/service for this winter. I’ll also contact Mike Quill to see if he knows any riggers with NonSuch experience in my neck of the woods.
Rob Cohen
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Westport, CT
I am a clamp, top and bottom guy, although I am also a belt and suspenders kind of guy too.
Rob: The owner’s manual has diagrams of the shims, mast collar and, I believe, the boot.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
When the original mast boot disintegrated on MagnifiCat, I had our local marine canvas company make me one using a double thickness of Sunbrella. I had him put a short zipper in it so it’s easy to take off when we pop the mast out in the fall. I use a stainless clamp top and bottom, it’s worked well for me over the last three years and looks good for quite a while yet.
Alan Steward
30C # 144, MagnifiCat
Loyalist Cove Marina,
Bath, Ontario
Rob -
To the best of my knowledge, “the partners” is really another name for the entire mast collar area i.e. the place where the mast goes through the deck. But … I could be wrong.
The mast collar is the aluminum casting and it is never removed (unless a repair has to be done). When it’s time to unstep the mast, you slide the mast boot UP the mast to free up the area to remove the shims. You go below and pound a few shims “up” to loosen them then pull out all of the shims. Then you can lift the mast out. Yes, that’s an oversimplification but that’s basically how it works. For now (until you do remove the mast), maybe get some wider tape and make certain that you use enough of it at the bottom of the mast boot to keep ANY stray water out. The problem is that the boot likely needs to be replaced as it is just simply too short on its bottom part. Check the integrity of the tape now and then.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Partners is a wooden boat term that refers to the blocking fitted between the deck beams in way of the mast. I don’t think it applies to anything in a fibreglass boat.
Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.
Leave it to wooden boat builder to know something like that …
Thanks, Paul.
Ernie A. in Toronto
When we had our mast pulled for servicing a few years ago, just before reinstallation I discovered that our collar was allowing water from across the deck to get between the aluminium
and the fibreglass. I removed the screws, the collar and spent some quality time cleaning variations of silicone and who knows what from the two mating surfaces. When I reinstalled it I used generous amounts of 3M 4200 and fresh hardware. I cannot remember if any 4200 was used between the mast and the boot, but we have not had water leak in since.
Peter Moodie
Nonsuch 30U Catalyst #366
Sidney, BC/Winnipeg, MB
This is getting interesting. In my little NS 22, I took LOTS of water over the bow but never had a leak as I had TWO band clamps on it - one UP and one DOWN. They were drum tight. i have never heard of using any product to seal the mast boot to anything.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Hi All,
I touched base with Mike Quill. Great guy. I’ll add his input to this thread for the benefit of folks in the future with mast boot questions.
33’s are notorious for lack of room between the fairlead collar and the boot.
You can trim the top of the wedges down as per attached picture to allow the boot to come down a bit more.
A lower clamp can be replaced with suitable tape.
Mike wasn’t able to provide a name of any competent Nonsuch riggers in our area (Long Island Sound). I feel I’ll need to find one to properly maintain Soave.
Questions:
Thanks,
Rob Cohen
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Westport, CT
