sailing today close hauled with a double reef I noticed two issues with the sail that I could not figure out how to rectify. First was that with the chocker as tight as it would go there was a fair bit of sail hard against the boom so I couldn’t flatten the sail very well. The luff cringle was tightened down hard and the leach cringle was about a foot above the boom. Second, and maybe related, with the topping lift completely eased the boom was resting on the topping lift safely cable instead of the sail carrying the weight of the boom. I had the same issue when I shook out the second reef and went to a single reef. Any suggestions for me? I’m starting to wonder if the sail is shot or maybe cut wrong to start with. As I mentioned in my last post I don’t know the history of this sail. But then again maybe it’s just me Thanks for any wisdom you can bestow upon me. That is assuming my feeble brain can absorb it
[quote=“Puffin, post:1, topic:10630”]
the leach cringle was about a foot above the boom.
[/quote]
I’ve had similar problems and concerns about my new sail when reefed. A couple thoughts based on what I’ve been trying:
One thing to check is whether, with the choker completely slack and the topping lift slightly raised, is there anything you can do to get that aft reef line tighter? I think it should be much less than a foot closer to the reef turning block and only a few inches above the boom. I think it’s important to do that before tightening the choker, because o/w the choker pushing the boom back is adding resistance to the reefing line trying to pull the clew back.
When you said that the choker was as tight as it would go, do you mean it’s pulled the boom against the mast so that it physically can’t go any further back? If not, it may be that something in your choker set-up at the mast and boom front is preventing you from pulling the boom further back. E.g., if the choker tackle line’s too long, the multi-part purchase blocks might be too close together and ground out on each other before the tackle can draw the boom all the way back. Ditto if the attachment of the turning block on the front boom fitting is lets it hang any further back than necessary from the fitting.
I’m still fiddling with these things to get better sail shape for my reefs, so they’re not guaranteed solutions. Just possibilities I’m investigating.
If anyone knows better things to try, I can use advice, too.
Ed,
I’ve sailed Soave for three seasons and find my 40+ years of sailing experience to be unhelpful when it comes to truly understanding the Nonsuch rig. Here are some things I’ve learning so far.
On Soave the static part of the topping lift was replaced at some point with Dyneema. I suspect the rigger used a incorrect measurement and the static (now dyneema) portion of the topping lift is longer than the old wire one. With the new topping lift if someone accidentally released topping lift, the wishbone would rest on Soaves bimini. My solution was to make a new (shorter) safety that would prevent the wishbone from ever engaging Soaves bimini. BUT this still leaves me with less adjustment in my topping lift. ( can’t go as high as it could with the shorter static cable ). This hasn’t affected my ability to reef, but it could have if the error was greater. Might be worth checking the length of the static part of your topping lift and also the length of your safety line.
I found it handy ( on a windless day) to hoist the sail at each reef point see where everything lands. Just a very coarse observation, sail won’t be shaped properly, but you will be able to clearly see if there is some gross error in the rig setup or sail. The thing I always forget is how the choker impacts the height of my wishbone, so you may need to work the choker a bit to get the sail to support the wishbone instead of the topping lift ( after the leach reef line is set).
Soave’s choker line is a tad long ( my fault, I replaced the old one after it chafed ). I realize now the length of the upper choker line ought to be dialed in so the block and tackle part bottoms out a tiny bit before the wishbone touches the mast. I sailed this season with the block and tackle bottoming out when the wishbone was still several inches from the mast. This prevented me from getting the sail as flat as I wanted in heavier air.
The most common errors I make are :
Forget to ease the choker before starting to reef or over easing the choker and inducing flogging.
Trying to tighten the aft reef line before the topping lift is where it should be. This results in having to go back, tighten the topping lift, and then return to the reef line to finish tightening it. A pain on Soave because the topping lift and aft reef lines share a winch.
Forgetting to adjust the choker after the reef is done.
A photo showing a side view of the sail, wishbone and reef line is very useful for off water analysis. If you are on the boat, just get a photo of the reef line, sail cringle, and wishbone to show the angle of the reef line.
I saw the below photo on FB and was surprised how flat the sail looked and how far out the choker is.
Thanks guys for your pointers. Bob, I hadn’t thought about the choker haul system being chock-a-block. Mine is hidden behind the sail pack so out of sight out of mind. The wish boom can come aft a few more inches but not a lot. Tightening the leach cringle closer to the boom would raise the boom and ease tension on the topping lift but what about the compression forces exerted on the boom. Some folks caution against that out of fear of collapsing the boom. Rob, good idea about setting up the reefs at the dock. That would definitely help puzzle things out while you’re not under any stress instead of while bashing to windward in 20 kts. of wind . The photo is definitely an eye opener. Something to shoot for. And you’re right, you might as well throw all of the hard earned knowledge out the window when it comes to sailing a Nonsuch .
Rob, I was looking at your picture a little closer and it looks as if the leach cringle is right down at the boom. That would definitely change the geometry of things.
I suppose that it’s theoretically possible. But, IMHO, the only way to do that – if it can be done at all with human power on a small winch – would be if you continued to tighten the reefing line well after it was already running straight across.
And, at that point, you have to ask how much force would it take to collapse them.
The booms are 3/16th thickness aluminum with a 3" diameter, and curved to oppose forces pulling them toward each other. I tried getting mine to bend in just a few millimeters with a couple of ratcheting straps, and couldn’t. (I was trying to pry my boom end fitting off at the time.)
Now all I have to do is to master safe levitation so I can make the adjustments to the upper parts of my choker system myself. Or drop 30 lbs and 20 years. Or find a rigger who’ll show up, and understand how to do it right. (Preceding alternatives listed in descending order of realistic hopes of happening.)
Thanks for any wisdom you can bestow upon me. That is assuming my feeble brain can absorb it 
. The photo is definitely an eye opener. Something to shoot for. And you’re right, you might as well throw all of the hard earned knowledge out the window when it comes to sailing a Nonsuch 
. I don’t think I’ll worry about it too much.
most of us on this forum would like to lose 20 years.