I have leaks at the base of both rudder tube gussets and the port gusset is split and warped. I can’t find a post on replacing the gussets. This past spring I lowered the rudder, ground out the old sealant to a depth of 3/16 of an inch and filled the void with 5200 only to be rewarded with leaks on both sides. The gussets appear to be well bedded into the hull and I am not sure if replacing them is the smartest thing to do. If I go down the path of replacement I think the thing to do would be make replacements out of some form of composite material as opposed to wood.
Has anyone done this job?
Am I way over my head?
Randy Gadikian
Paisley Moon
NS 26C
Buffalo< New York
I’ll be optimistic, how much leak are you seeing? Maybe it is the remnants of the old leak oozing out? The INA web site has the drawings. I had one gusset that was cracked, but still firmly attached to the hull so I simply doubled both up with 1/2 ply glassed to the existing ones. They are not moving any time soon.
The leak is just a trickle, but it is an annoyance when I need to go into the engine spaces to check on things. I would prefer to come out of the hold with a wet butt, but that is not possible.
I don’t think the is the remnant of the old leak leaning out as it got worse over the course of the sailing season.
Randy,
As Thor suggested you need to check the gussets to make sure they are not moving. You should also check for play in the bushing holding the top of the rudder post. I had a small leak at the rudder post that dried up when I replaced the aluminium bushing plate at the top of the rudder post.
In certain sailing conditions I was hearing a noise from the top of the post. I pulled the inspection plate and turned the wheel hard to one side. I kept a close eye on the rudder post as I turned the wheel back. I could see a small amount of movement, 1/16” to 1/8”.
We did the repair with the boat in the water. First we slung a couple of ropes around the bottom of the rudder so we would not loose it when we took the crown nut off. Turned out the steering quadrant held it as much as the ropes. There are set screws holding the crown nut that will need to be removed. If memory serves me correctly there were two set screws. The crown nut is round and large. It requires a large pipe wrench to remove it. It was so right that we would put the wrench on and than turn the wheel to turn the nut off.
We replaced the aluminium plate with a new plate, two brass and two high density plastic bushings. We also replaced the crown nut with a hex nut that we drilled and tapped for a set screw.
I have a couple of photos I will post when I am on the other computer.
If that is the case Mark’s point about the upper bearing point is worth pursuing as there could be “flex” in the tube and that may have undone the lower repair.
Randy,
I promised to post a couple of photos of the rudder head bushing replacement.
Here they are. I have not figured out how to view the photos as I am posting them so hopefully I have these in the right order. The first shows the original crown nut and bushing plate in place. e second is a shot taken from below and shows the rudder post and a couple of the nuts that hold the bushing in place. You will have to be able to access these to remove the old plate and install a new one. e next shows the new plate and bushings stacked and ready to install. The last shows everything in place.
So to summarize, your aluminum bushing plate was worn to the point where there was play between the bushing and the plate. The solution was to machine a new plate that was not worn into an oval around the bushing.
Randy,
The original set up had the rudder post going through the aluminium plate. There was no other bushing. The post gradually wore the aluminium plate until the hole was slightly over sized and oval. The brass and high density plastic bushings were new additions.
If you look at the first photo you can see a plastic washer. It was not a bushing. On the new set up the brass fits over the post and acts as the bushing. It is stepped so that part of ot goes through a hole in the plate and part of it rests on the plate. There are effectively two plastic washers that ride against each other.
Mark Powers
La Reina 26C
Vancouver, B. C.
( written from the dock at the Union Steamship Marina, Snug Cove, Bowen Island. Pleasant little sail over today. Have plenty of blankets, hot water bottles and heaters for the night)
My understanding is that Marelon ball valves need periodic lubrication. Have you needed to lube the Marelon bushing?
Did you install low friction washers or use the original plastic washer?
I installed an IGUS polymer bearing several years ago. My shaft had also worn the plate to an oval shape. So far everything looks good but to really see if it worked I would have to lower the rudder.
It was relatively simple to install but getting the quadrant and the key out of the shaft so I could lower it was very difficult. The key was very stuck.
Tom,
Igus has a number of interesting products. Did they suggest a particular one for your application? I see they have some with zero water absorption and others with long life and high wear resistance.
I just asked them for some samples that would fit on the shaft after I discussed the application with the salesman. He sent me several different ones. They all looked tough as nails and slippery. I dont remember what I chose but I don’t think that matters much because this bearing never gets wet. As far as expansion, the bearing was sized just slightly larger than the shaft so it was a loose fit not snug even after I pressed it into the enlarged hole in the aluminum plate.
They are designed for rotating shafts in food processing plants where grease can’t be used and for applications just like this one where you want to separate two moving metal parts. I think wear on the rudder which rotates very little is not the problem. Toughness may be a bigger issue because of the load. These are very tough.
However I’ll take the nut off and have a close look at the bearing sometime this winter.
Hi Randy,
I hope that it is not too late to join this conversation.
I have also been having similar issues with a small trickle coming out of one of the gussets. I cannot figure out how water is getting into the gusset. What is the relationship of the worn bushing plate to the water leak?
Here is a BIG reminder… 95% of the time the water that you see oozing out of the gussets comes from a deteriorating seal between the fibreglass rudder tube and the actual hull… or, dare I say, in medical terms… your boat’s anus. NOTHING more. Unless you are sailing in pounding seas, routinely, it is not coming in from the top of the rudder tube. Only very rarely does a rudder tube crack so there’s almost no chance of water coming in from a crack or break in the tube.
What I am describing is, honestly, common. Many of us have dealt with it by dropping the rudder (only a little), cleaning out old sealant from this area and re-sealing it with 5200. I did this 4 years ago and it’s still perfect - no more leaking.
I have a terrific photo from Mike Quill that explains all - I’ll try to find it and post it.
Thank you for your reply.
Do you know what the material inside of the rudder tube is? I have not seen any water coming out of the top of the tube and I replaced the grease cup with a zerk fitting so that I could push a lot of grease into the tube. Is the grease in the tube what prevents water from entering the boat?
My experience is leak is not inside tube . It is result of voids in the bond between the tube and hull. I had this problem , Dropped the rudder made the space between tuber and hull at the a little deeper and wider , put in 5200, that failed after first season, took 5200 out and redid with 4200. No problem now. I do inspect when I haul .
On an N22 original drawing, the material used in the rudder tube is called “epoxy” According to Mike Quill, these tubes are “fibreglass”. Here are 3 documents/photos that will illustrate what i think is actually happening.
