Rudder tube Gussett Replacement

[system]

Now that the season is finally here I have found an intolerable leak around the rudder tube, kind of like a little meandering stream coming out of the outside end of the gussets. Unfortunately I have to replace both of them. Has anyone attempted this job? I am assembling all the tools I think I will need and getting psyched for a time consuming project, but hey, I’m retiring in a few weeks.

Seriously, has anyone done this work before?

Randy Gadikian
Paisley Moon NS 26C
RCR Yachts
Buffalo New York.

(attachments)

[system]

Do you mean the glassed plywood gussets inside the boat?

Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay B.C.

[user43]

Randy -

Like Paul, I, too, am wondering … Do you mean the 3 plywood glassed in “legs” that support the rudder tube under the cockpit ? If you are referring to them, WAIT … please !! Many, many of us have dealt with this disgusting oozing of water trickling from the ends of the gussets and it’s been an easy fix. I have never heard of anyone rebuilding/replacing the gussets, no matter how raunchy they look. They are probably FIR ply, used a lot by Hinterhoeller and even if they are DRENCHED with water, they won’t collapse. The leak, invariably, comes from the seal at the rudder tube (sorry … the boat’s “anus” - how’s THAT for a salty term ??). It’s a ten-minute fix. I’d love to hear more about the actual gussets - are they soft and decomposed ?? Got a photo, by any chance ??

Trust me, this is a very common problem and a quick fix (unless these gussets are actually truly shot and falling apart). Replacing them is quite a job, I’ll bet, and should not be done unless it’s an absolute must.

Photos would be wonderful.

Thanks !!

Ernie A. in Toronto

[system]

(attachments)

[system]

Wrong pictures.

Unfortunately the glass surrounding tube that holds it to the strut is peeled away from the tube and the strut itself is really twisted.

And so it begins.

[user1 (10464...@gmail.com)]

Ernie,

Trust me, this is a very common problem and a quick fix (unless these gussets are actually truly shot and falling apart). Replacing them is quite a job, I’ll bet, and should not be done unless it’s an absolute must.

Please share the “quick fix”

Bob D
30C #170

[user43]

Bob -

I’ll be glad to in a day or two when I get a sec. For now, at the top where it says "search for messages’, type in rudder tube leak or rudder tube gusset.

You ought to get a load of info.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[user43]

Hello Bob -

The thread that will help you is entitled Black, weeping, slow-leak from rudder-post struts and it was started by Don Gill on 05/09/2018. It’s got a photo from Mike Quill, etc. Basically, when the boat is on the hard, you put a car jack under the bottom of the rudder and slowly drop it about 6 - 8 inches so that you can dig out any old adhesive from where the rudder tube (not the post) meets the hull. You, then, insert new adhesive (3M -4200), lower the rudder and it should fix the problem for years before you need to do the same thing again. The gussets are fir plywood (I believe) and won’t rot if they are wet. They’ll dry in short order with no water incursion, look crappy but be fine.

That’s the fix, sir.

Stay healthy.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[user1 (10464...@gmail.com)]

Thank You

[system]

Randy
There is also an article on the INA Website (log in with email and password), go to the Members’ Tips and Projects area, article is called Resealing the Rudder Post.

Ted Eedson
Purrfection 26U #232

[system]

I had leakage water coming out of the weep holes in the rudder gussets. Last year I dropped the rudder and resealed the bottom of the rudder tube. Now there is no leakage
At the same time I installed a second grease fitting about two inches above the bottom of the tube. My rudder had become harder to turn and I suspected the rudder shaft at the bottom of the rudder tube wasn’t being lubricated. The extra greasing point seems to have solved this problem

For the second job I had to lower the rudder further than needed just for the resealing.The only complicated part was loosening the radial drive wheel on the rudder shaft to give me the extra lowering distance.

Here is a picture of my rudder lowering set up..I also made a wrench to unscrew the top nut ( after backing off the two set screws), as access for a regular wrench is limited

John Barbour

Nature 26U
Toronto

(attachments)

[user43]

John -

Your photo of the car jack and the rudder is precisely THE setup. It’s exactly what I (and countless others) have done. I doubt if it’s possible to get out the old caulk and properly get the new stuff in without dropping the rudder, at least a little bit.

And thanks, Ted, for the mention of the article on the site about this task.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Andrew_B]

Hi Randy,

We too had the weeping gussets on our 30 when we purchased it last summer. Our surveyor said not to worry but knowing how fussy I am he said you may as well change them.

We sealed the hull to tube joint with thickened epoxy and then sika flex, then we started to cut out the old gussets. The forward two were not too wet but the aft one was and someone had hacked away near the quadrant stop allowing water to enter.

The worst part of the job was covering everything in plastic sheeting and cutting out the old stuff. Next gussets were bedded in bedding compound followed by about 5 layers of heavy Matt and woven roving. Off and on it took about a week.

I will add some photos if I figure out how to.

Andrew Barkhouse
Ocelot 30U 349
Pickering, On

[system]

Hello Andrew,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. All three of my gussets were wet and the bottoms of the forward gussets were rotten. The glass around the rudder tube was also broken in a vertical line between the port and rear gusset. I am a hands on kind of guy so I have been doing the repair myself with a good deal of guidance from the fiberglass guru at the marina and some advice from the folks at West System Epoxy. This has been a greweling job consisting of many trips to the marina. I am happy with the progress but will be happier when the job is done.

Randy

[user43]

Hey Randy -

At least you have nice,cool, comfy breezy weather to do this job down in the bowels of your boat …

Drink LOTS of water.

Stay healthy.

Ernie A. in boiling hot Toronto

[system]

HI Andy,

I’m getting the job done. Yesterday was very warm and the slow hardener was cooking off pretty quickly. today is at least 10 degrees cooler so the epoxy will last considerably longer in the tray. The gussets are installed and I have three layers of cloth on all the joints. Today’s project will be putting on a couple more layers and on the joints and covering the gussets with a coat of cloth and resin. The staff at the marina has been very helpful. I hope to finish and have the boat in the water by the end of the week.

Unfortunately I think I need to take the rudder out again to install the steering quadrant. The ends of the steering cables are swaged on and will not come out of the steering mechanism.

Randy

[system]

Ernie,

Sorry about calling you Andy. Please accept my apology.

This project is coming to an end finally. The steering quadrant has been installed and there are just a few more adjustments to be made. Launch date if the weather cooperates is Monday.

Randy

[Andrew_B]

So guy’s this is what I went through but at least the temperature was cool. Buy a boat it will be great they said…

Andrew Barkhouse
30U Ocelot
Pickering, On

[user43]

Hey Randy -

You didn’t screw up - you were addressing ANDREW BARKHOUSE, right !! NO apology needed. Andy is almost as nice a name as Ernie. Actually, Mr. Barkhouse did one mighty fine and neat job in rebuilding and glassing these gussets. I, Ernie Abugov, did NOT rebuild my gussets - they look butt-ugly but are rock solid.

Randy - I’m glad this adventure is coming to a close. You go in on Monday and, after damn near 11 months (and a LOT of re-built deck), I go in on Tuesday. What a long haul …

Glad it’s done, though.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[system]

The rudder tube replacement is finally done and Paisley Moon has been in the water for three weeks. Smooth sailing and finally a dry bilge. Imagine that, a DRY Bilge!

RCR Yachts professionals were very helpful with advice on how to make the project successful and the costs for hauling the boat and using a cradle lift to aid in the replacement of the rudder were reasonable.

The tech advisors at West System were also very helpful, handling multiple queries on how to use their products most efficiently. Advice also came from Obershimer’s sailor supply in Buffalo. I should note that sometimes the advice from varying sources is in conflict.

I have about 50 hours in this project over a period of 4 weeks, not including multiple trips to stores for things that were needed along the way.

I would say more time was spent removing the old gussets and prepping the area for the repairs than on the installation of the new gussets and sealing the hull.

I should note that the original gussets were not made of marine plywood. It also appears that the gussets were not epoxied into the hull, other than with tabbing. This seemed very odd to me. Also, there was no epoxy or resin around the bottom of the rudder tube. There was a 1&1/2 inch void between the tapered portion of the tube and the bottom of the hull.

While working in the bilge I had the box fan on constantly to pull air through the compartment. This pulled fine particles out of the bilge which were deposited all over the outside of the boat, and surroundings. Washing the boat took care of the majority of this dust and grit.

Invariably if I failed to wear a Tyvek suit I would have an epoxy spill. If I had this job to do over again I would plan the work with more care and thoroughly research the procedure before beginning. As it is, the work turned out exceeding well.

I will end as I began, Paisley moon now has a dry bilge!

Supplies:
1/8 sheet of 3/4 marine plywood
2" fiberglass tape
6" fiberglass tape
unwaxed disposable mixing cups.
stirring sticks
flux brushes
3" disposable paint brushes - Chip Brushes
Scissors
West System resin
West system slow hardener
Sanding discs 36 grit to 80 grit
3/8 x 6" x 2 inch aluminum strips -2
3/8 x 1&1/2 stainless bolts, nuts and washers.
Sanding triangles for multitool
Cardboard for templates
4 Steel & Wood blades

Epoxy syringes
Roller tray for saturating cloth
Gloves
Small tarp - hung up to keep epoxy dust away from the engine
Tyvek suit.

Tools:

Vibrating saw - (Fein Multimaster)

Disc sander
Circular Saw
Router
Box Fan
Particulate respirator
Chemical respirator
Extension cords

Randy Gadikian
Nonsuch 26 C
Paisley Moon
Buffalo, NY