Replacing instrumentation in a NS360

[system]

Good even ing all.
Our 360 is in Bellingham, WA for bottom paint and Propspeed. While it is out of the water, we are having the yard change the original halyard and the topping lift. The Raymarine ST30 speed/depth display and the wind direction/speed display are dying, the speed transducer is stuck, and the wind transducer cups are busted so we are looking at fixing the instruments. I need advice and explanation for a few items.

#1: We are on retired teachers’ budget now, so what direction would you go for instruments? We use an iPad with GPS dongle and an iPhone for Navionics, but we like depth, speed, and wind info. We do not intend to travel far from our homeport on Lopez Island in the San Juans, so we don’t feel we will appreciate fancy equipment. Should we go Raymarine 140, i50, or i70? Or is a MFD?

#2: Our topping lift is one strong line to a winch but some of you often speak of a safety line or something that keeps it from falling all the way. What does that look like?

#3: How do I know if I have a Tidetrack? Our slugs are brass, but the track looks like the one in the pics attached. Should I have it replaced while it is on the hard?

#4: Where can I get a screen like the one for the drain pictured below? No chandlery I visited have them.

Thanks so much for all your care and help.

(attachments)

[user43]

Richard -

I am not a HUGE fan of Raymarine. I had a Raymarine depth instrument on my previous NS22 that worked it’s way through 3 instruments as they’d conk out. I got little help from “Customer Service” and resorted to replacing the instrument itself (not the transducer) using Ebay. There is SOMETHING about the company that seems to inspire a love 'em or hate 'em response by the general boating community. You don’t find that with B & G instruments (from the UK), for instance. They work, period but they cost $$$.

I would go with CLIPPER instruments. Here is a link to CLR Marine in Florida.

Clipper

Here’s a link to the NASA site, the manufacturers of Clipper, in England.

https://www.nasamarine.com/

They have a comprehensive line of instruments. These are from the UK and are VERY popular in the UK and Europe (and maybe elsewhere).They are manufactured by NASA (interesting name) along with a few other lines of instruments. They are HI-value instruments that may not have every bell and whistle that others may have but they are solid and well-built and may be half the price. Or less. Unless I’m mistaken, darn near every marine instrument made is put together in the Far East so that isn’t a factor.

CLR seems to be the big US dealer for this entire line.

I took one particular product, theNASA Clipper Wind System V2. This is a complete wired (not wireless) system - instrument, transducer, wiring, etc. I compared buying it from CLR in Florida with buying from the manufacturer and from buying at Marine Superstore, a big online dealer in the UK.

CLR - Florida - $355.72 + $12.00 Fedex Ground shipping

Marine Superstore - UK - 259 GBP includes shipping = $331.00

Direct from NASA - UK- 288 GBP includes shipping = $368.00

I would go with buying from CLR in Florida. For a few bucks more, you are getting it from the States, not across the pond. And, there are MANY other US stores (Defender, etc.) that may stock this.

Now … you better sit down !! The present model of a Raymarine wired wind system (the i60 - there is no i50 - the cheapest available) sold by Defender costs $875.99.

I know what I’d buy …. especially if I was replacing depth, wind and speed. Do LOTS of research and due diligence. Read reviews. I’ve sailed in the UK and Europe and have seen these NASA (mostly Clipper - they might be their their top line) instruments used everywhere.

Otherwise, that mealy looking track certainly looks like a really old Tides track. Tides track is a plastic track that simply slides right on top of the Nonsuch factory track. Regarding the topping lift, it should be a long steel cable from the mast head that connects to a 4:1 pulley that attaches to back end of the boom. The pulley line goes along the boom forward to the mast, down the mast and back to you in the cockpit. The safety line is a seperate steel cable with a loop on each end. One loop attaches to the TOP pulley and the other end attaches to the end of the boom. This gives you a “line” to keep the boom from lowering “too far” and whacking someone on the head. You determine the line length (using another piece of cord/line/etc.) and have this short steel cable made up. It is shackled to the pulley and the boom and is easily removable if you must lower the boom for maintenance, boom removal, etc. Originally, I used a tied-on length of Dyneema for the safety line but it would flop around and get snarled up in the pulley lines. Consequently, i replaced it with stiff length of steel cable (not too thick) that stays out of the way of the pulley lines.

I’m saying a 4:1 pulley as that made raising or lowering the boom very easy by hand, without using a winch. Safe to say that virtually all Nonsuches have a pulley system (that attaches to the boom) at the end of the long steel cable topping lift.

I’ve attached a PDF document with a photo.

Have fun with this !!

Ernie A. in Toronto (I think that we are getting more rain this summer than Bellingham.)

(attachments)

Topping Lift.pdf (123 KB)

[system]

I looked up the Clipper wind instrument. It looks like the image below. It is LCD including the needle which would take some getting used to, but should be fine. I have no idea how hard it would be to see in the sun. I looked at the owner’s manual and it is pretty sparse. It says nothing about networking this to other devices, but it does say it is compatible with the Standard Horizon CP180 MFD. I looked that up and downloaded the manual for it. It only has NMEA-0183 which implies that the Clipper probably does, too. That would make networking to a modern MFD challenging, but it seems like it should work fine as a stand-alone wind instrument and at half the price, as Ernie said.

To the Raymarine thing: I think they all have their plusses and minuses. You can go online and find very convincing arguments for and against all of the consumer grade marine manufacturers. I have previous experience (good) with Raymarine, a friend had the Axiom+ and was very happy with it, and it was compatible with the minimal instruments already on the boat. That included a very well functioning wind instrument which is probably well over 20 years old. So they don’t always die. I looked really hard at B&G (they are using my initials, after all) and almost went with them except for the heating-in-the-sun problem. Mine is in the sun when I sail and I chose the one with the huge heat sink on the back, Raymarine.
But it is always VERY smart to learn about all options and choose the one that is best for you, not the one which was best for me.

[system]

RayMarine: I bought a new Windvane transducer and display at the high price and had it installed by a fitter in Mobile, Alabama in 2023. The transducer quit working in less than a year so I sent it back to RayMarine and they determined that it was within the warranty, and repaired it free. Of course I had to pay a fitter to go up the mast twice and check out all the connections and wiring. The new transducer is working good. It is connected to an Axiom 7 on the binnacle.

Roger A Laine
Top Cat
1987 30U shoal draft
Prieto Marina, Mandeville, Louisiana

(attachments)

[system]

Richard- our paddlewheel knot meter is cantankerous but I’ve realized that mostly I care about approximate speed and changes in speed as I make adjustments, so I’ve been using the Speed Over Ground (SOG) that’s on my radio handset, or an Android app, SailFreeGPS for speed. The app has some nice features, like man overboard, etc. For depth, if you end up with a new transducer, usually they can be mounted inside a solid part of the hull if you are willing to accept a reduced max depth (as in 100’ instead of 400’). Note that word “solid”… our 30s have a cored hull, so you either need to mount it low where the coring ends, or remove and fill the core under the transducer. I’ve done this with my last two boats, no issue.

Dan Weinstein
Look Farther, 30C #205
East Greenwich RI

[system]

I think you meant to type 260 not 360.

If you are happy using the iPad and Navionics for navigation you might want to consider a black and white wind, depth and speed package from Garmin. They are very common in the Pacific Northwest so you will always be able to get support, service and parts. A wireless wind transducer will be easier to install. A wired one will likely be more reliable.

The topping lift arrangement on the 260s, 324s and 354s is different than what is found on the rest of the fleet. I am not aware of any easy way to install a safety line on the 260. If your topping lift runs through a rope clutch you can put a stopper knot in it that will hit the rope clutch before the boom falls low enough to become a hazard.
Most of the topping lifts have a standing portion and a running tackle portion. The safety line or pig tail is effective if the running tackle fails but does nothing if the standing portion fails. The only protection against the failure of the standing portion or in the case of the 260 topping lift would be a back up topping lift.

It looks like you have a strong track system. The track in the picture is way past its sell by date and should be replaced. All the cracks in the track are indications of pending failure. The tracks have a life span of about 10 years according to the manufacturer but in the PNW the lack of sun means we can get a few more years out of them. Normally the strong track (Tides Marine) have stainless steel slides.

The deck scupper looks like a ForeSpar type. I don’t know if they sell the screens as a separate item.

Mark Powers

[system]

Off the top, I need to correct my title: we have a 260, not 360. Big mistake.
Second, many thanks for the hints. I am leaning toward Garmin GMI at this time, or simply changing the Bi-data screen to a Raymarine i40; it appears the transducer is dead though, so the door is wide open.
I am very worried now about our sail track. Should I replace with a Tides track? Can I use the brass slugs on my current sail? Does the mast need to come off for that? If that raises my cost too much, I think my spouse will say it is time to sell…

[system]

Don’t temp me with potential sale.

The track needs to be changed. The mast should not have to come down. You may have to remove the collar that holds the sail tack. As you pull the old track down you feed it into the cabin through the forward port. I replaced the strong track about 2 months ago. The old one did not want to come down. I drilled holes through the side of the track and tied a small stirrup of line through the hole. I then stood in the stirrup to pull the track down. One friend bent the track and a second friend stood in the cabin to feed the track through the cabin. I presume if the slides worked with the old track they will work with the new track. At the bottom of the track is a small brace that holds the track in place. If you are lucky you will be able to read the serial number. If you can read the number it will make ordering the replacement track much simpler.

Mark Powers

[system]

PS, can you send a picture of the sail slides and the bottom of the sail track?
Mark Powers

[system]

I think the deck drain you were asking about in the original post may be replaceable with a Forespar “Thru-Hull 1-1/4” Hose Tailpipe Flush Head Screened Item Number: 906037".

The description of the item is THRU-HULL, FLUSH HEAD WITH SCREEN TO 1-1/2" HOSE BARB - CF 254 1-1/2" S

Forespar’s presentation is a bit confusing because they title their items by inner diameter of the item, rather than inner diameter of the hose that goes on it. It seems strange to buy what’s seemingly described as a 1-1/4" item in order to fit a 1-1/2" hose, but that’s the way they do it. You have to read the full specs.

Your picture of the sail track looks very much like a severely UV-degraded Tides sail track – EXCEPT that the picture shows the track apparently fastened to the mast with a Philips head screw. Tides track is typically sold as an aftermarket attachment that slides over an original mast track. It’s been a while since I had one, but your picture doesn’t match my recollection of how they’re installed.

My carbon fiber mast, was a replacement rather than original equipment, but I always assumed that it must have been built to the N260 specs. Its track is black anodized 7/8" track. Have you confirmed what material your track is made of?

I’d strongly urge you to use the INA member service to consult with Mike Quill, who very may have records on your boat, about your track. Since it’s a 260, with a carbon fiber mast, he likely also knows who produced the masts (my guess being Van Dusen Composite Engineering, https://composite-eng.com/).

– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Marina del Rey, California

[system]

As suggested, I have written to Mr. Quill; I look for ward to his response.
I would like to furnish better photos of the sail slides and the bottom of the sail track, but the boat is on the mainland. This is what I have now.
Again, so many thanks to the members who are writing to offer advice.

(attachments)

[system]

Many thanks to the folks who sent advice. I have contacted Mr. Quill regarding the track.

I cannot take current photos of the track and slugs as the boat is one the mainland. I include an older photo, as requested, for further input if possible.

(attachments)

[system]

Thanks for all the advice, folks. I have contacted Mr. Quill for the track problem and a possible gel crack in the mast. I cannot take a current photo of the track as the boat is on the mainland for bottom paint and instrument upgrade.

I have tried adding an older photo of the bottom of the track and the slugs but my messages keeps getting deleted. Here goes the third try.

[system]

I have tried three times to post a response with an older photo of the track and slugs but there message keeps getting deleted. Anybody has an idea why that would be?

[system]

For reasons I don’t understand your messages went to the pending file. I have approved them so they are available to the group.
Mark Powers

[Mike_Readshaw]

Richard,

We found someone who 3D printed replacement screens for our drains (we also have a 260). He is located on Vancouver Island, and can mail them to you (that’s what we did). They are nearly identical to the originals and work just fine. You may want to buy a bunch of them. They occasionally get washed overboard if you are heeled over in heavy weather. I think we bought 20, and it cost just under $50 CAD (back in 2021).

His name is Travis Doucette: travtron3d@gmail.com.

Good luck!

Mike Readshaw
WHIMSEY N260 #8
Vancouver, BC

[system]

I just received this tablet mount from Akron. To date we have been using a regular one that would hold the tablet by 4 ears, but would allow it to fall out it knocked. This one locks it in place so it can not fall and is far superior. Allows us to mount the tablet off gthe bimini frame in full view of everyone in the cockpit. This allows everyone to see where we are and help with navigation as needed. I still use a Garmin 76cx at the helm to steer as I am concerned with the next 5 miles or so and it offers functions like

https://arkon.com/collections/tablet/products/tab005kl-tablet-holder-locking-plastic