Brian Godfrey raised an interesting question in another thread, which I thought deserved a thread of its own:
Hi Nick,
I am negotiating to buy a Nonsuch 33 and would need to have it trucked. That means taking the mast down and sails off and such. So about how much does that sail weigh? Do you think one person can get it down and into the cabin or would it take two? (Or more?)
Thanks,
–Brian M. Godfrey
Kicking off the thread, all I can say is that my N26 sails, at about 420 square feet, have weighed between 45 and 60 lbs. That works out to about 0.143 lbs per square foot for the heaviest one I’ve owned. Given that a Nonsuch 33 sail is about 669 square feet, that’d work out to about 95-100 lbs.
This is only a rough approximation. It doesn’t account for differences in construction, battens, attached blocks, etc., etc.
But, if you don’t get a better answer from an actual Nonsuch 33 sail owner, it’ll probably put you in the ballpark, Brian.
I hope more people will chip in. It’d be interesting to know for all the boat sizes.
FWIW, I got curious and looked up what the U.S. National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health has to say on the topic. It basically boils down to (summarizing about 68 pages and paraphrasing very loosely), “we won’t regulate it, so you can do whatever you damn well please (but if you care about your employees you wouldn’t ask them to lift any sail weighing over 50 lbs by themselves)”.
When I was a teenage farm boy, I could throw 80 pound hay bales around all day. (Once for 17.5 hours straight, only eating while riding back from barn to field on the trailer, racing the weather.) And I could handle much heavier loads for shorter spells. But that ain’t me anymore! I’d definitely need help for a 90-100 pound sail and I sure wouldn’t turn it down for a 60 pound one. Especially when we’re also talking awkward loads.
Brian correctly referenced the sail as being awkward like a hay bale! I might also suggest bulky, slippery and challenging for one person. Folding tightly & small enough to drop into the cabin is the issue. Bring a friend or ask for help on the dock.
If I understood correctly, you’re purchasing a Nonsuch. Might be worth removing it from the boat and taking it to a sail loft for inspection, repairs and a wash?
Good luck!
Eric Hakanson
Former owner “Carpe Diem”
NS30U #484
Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Having the sail inspected and so on sounds like a good idea and I’ll see if I can figure out how/where to get it done. But I’m also going to have to have the boat trucked and it seems like an awful lot of stuff to get coordinated. It’s kind of daunting, buying a boat that’s so far away. I know many of you have done it, but I haven’t. Yet. I’m still negotiating for the boat. I just happened to be reading the preparation section of a boat trucking website when I saw Nick’s comment about his sail being heavy.
The boat is about an 8-10 hour drive from my house. I suppose I will be driving up there to prepare it and I could bring the sail back with me. There would be the challenge of getting it off the boat and to the truck, but at least I wouldn’t be stuffing it into the cabin, which apparently is not as easy as I was expecting.
So how does one secure the boom when transporting a Nonsuch?
Man! Weren’t you lucky! I’ve helped a friend prep a boat for trucking and it’s a lot of work. I don’t think the seller is going to help me with this boat. The husband has health problems and the wife just wants it sold. It’s OK, I’ll survive it. But I’m envious.
I just took my Doyle sale for my 30 in for cleaning/inspection. She weighs 86 pounds according to them. I got her down the stairs in my house and into the back of my Jeep….. alone. Just had to harvest some anger to get the strength. Lol. Having it in it’s bag was key.
I had my boat shipped by truck from Hamilton, Ontario to Kingston Ontario by truck, about a 3 hour drive on principle highways. The boat was shipped in its cradle on a hydraulic trailer. Given the shipping height, and clearance requirements for the underside of highway overpasses here in Ontario, it was necessary to remove the bow pulpit from the mounting brackets on the hull. Not difficult. The mast was mounted on the trailer, angled bottom end down and mast top up with all instruments removed. The boom was a bit trickier; I fabricated two open ended boxes from 3/4” plywood with curved bottoms to match the deck camber at the two outside winches on the cabin top, the topping lift winch on the starboard side and the halyard winch on the port side. I cut notches in the top of each box to take a length of 2 x 4 which straddled both boxes plus a foot or so extra each side and set the boom on the 2 x 4, and lashed both sides down to the cleats beside the winches. The boxes were about 8-9 “ square and 10” high, just enough to fit over the winches and tall enough to notch without the 2 x 4 touching the winches. As the winches are offset, so too were the boxes and notches so that the 2 x 4 was square to the boat centreline. By this means, the boom was mounted low on the deck and the boxes could not move because the boxes surrounded and were held in place being little bigger than the radius of the winches. The forward end of the boom was well padded and mounted on the Sampson post at the bow and lashed to the forward docking cleats( pulpit having been removed). The boom did not move whatsoever and overall, was mounted very low on the deck. The hauler liked the arrangement. I had very little time to prep the boat for shipping, a weekend at most. Pictures attached
Spare a thought for the poor Nonsuch 36 owners out there. Multiply by 760 ft² (NS36) / 669 ft² (NS33) , i.e. add +13%. Not sure what cloth weight/ounce but the thing weighs at least 150lb.
When taking it off and on the boat, I use a halyard and sway it into a dolly. I stuff the main in the bag loosely near the mast and refold it elsewhere. It sits in my dining room all winter as that is as far as it gets. I also got the sailmaker to put some more hand holds on the sail bag when I brought it in last fall for some TLC. I can just about carry it without too much damage to the knees.
I’m partially serious in that I’d love to put a zipper in it and split it in half. In the spring and fall, I really don’t care about sail shape. When it comes time to replace it, my “main” focus will be reducing that weight, no pun intended. Or just get a NS22.
Took us the better part of the morning to zip tie, tape and otherwise secure everything for the truck ride west. And just as long to remove it all. Pool noodles helped to protect some items like anchors, dodger/bimini from abrasion.
As for the sail, we hoist it off with the halyard and carry off like a large sausage, it takes 3 people. We then lay it out in the basement and fold / bag it. You can do it on a wooden deck as well. Grass is also an option but be very carfull as grass stains as hard to remove and look out for gifts left by Fido.
Someone else suggested keeping the sail zipped into the stack pack and removing the whole thing at once. Is that practical? How much would the combination probably weigh if the sail alone is over 100 pounds? It would be quite a long package. How long would it be? And how flexible? Could it be folded to go into the back of my pickup (8’ bed with fiberglass canopy) or would that damage the stack pack? There is obviously a long, narrow place on the truck for carrying the mast. I wonder if the sail-in-stack-pack bundle could ride alongside the mast. I’ll have to ask the trucker about that…
Brian M.
Shipping the sail flaked in the stack pack would save a lot of reassembly effort but at the cost of over exposure to unintended elements in the journey. A properly folded and sail bagged sail should travel in the boats cabin for ease of mind and ease of travel.
Brian,
Boat-less in New England
I don’t suggest that the sail be stored in anything except a proper sail bag (not a StackPac or sail cover). Somehow, somewhere and somehow, a Sunbrella sail cover with a sail inside, all bent out of shape or whatever, will suffer enough serious abrasion to wreck it. StackPacs aren’t cheap. Nor are any sail covers. Why destroy it ??
How do I know, you ask ?? Been there, done that and got the $$$$$$ T-shirt. I kept the sail on my NS22 in the sail bag, threw the whole schmozzola into a dock cart and wheeled it down the main dock to a wooden deck to remove it and properly flake it. During this little excursion, it fell out of the cart onto a path and I ended up with around 15 holes, tears, scratches, etc. Only took one little incident.
These sail covers are not designed to be dragged are to suffer any real abrasion. You wouldn’t drag your sofa cushions on anything, right ??
So, find a friend/accomplice/paid worker/desperate student and bring them with you when you go to the boat. Get some help, Brian. You basically just need a little bull labour and a strong back. It’s all do-able. Bring the sail back in your truck. Once the boat has been moved (and you have a minute) find somewhere to unpack the sail and check it out, etc. Better yet, bring the whole thing to your local sailmaker who, if nothing else, can check if it is damp, let it dry, flake it and get it into its sail bag. Sorry, did I mention that, like the StackPac, sails are far from cheap ??
Dampness brings mildew. Ugh. Mildew looks like hell, is murder to remove and weakens sails. To be avoided … Good luck. Unless something very odd happens, you’ll only have to get her moved once and then it’s done.
On my 33 I have a non class standard laminate sail. The sail weighs about 60 pounds. Flaked and rolled in it’s bag I can carry the sail by myself. The carry technique is to hold the sail across my belly with the fingers of each hand inserted between the rolled layers.
With this technique I can carry the bagged sail downstairs to the basement and place the sail on a self just above waist height.
To get the sail from the boat and neatly packed into its bag, I do the following with the sail in it’s bottom opening sail cover:
Remove the slides from the track.
With three friends, move the “package” from the boat to the dock. (The strongest person is at the luff end.)
Four people cary the “package” to the club house’s carpeted floor.
Remove the sail cover to flake and roll the sail.
I guess if I attend a Nonsuch Rendevous, I’ll need to get a woven dacron sail.
The sail for our 30U weighs in at 89#, in its bag. I have modified the bag, adding straps so it can be carried like a backpack. A 90# backpack is a lot, but manageable. (That said, I too tossed bales of hay around in my teens and have the lower back problems to show for it.) The biggest problem is the sail not being tightly contained in the bag and located properly on the back. A bale of hay is easier to manage.
I always drop our sail to the deck while in the sail cover, with the battens out, and then fold it into thirds, tie it tightly and wrestle it off the boat and onto a dock cart to take it to the car (then drive to the club, rearrange the furniture so I can inspect and fold, drag the sail in its cover up the stairs, . . . . . .). For some nasty storms (like Hurricane Sandy), I have folded it as above and then stuffed it below deck - if I was going to lose the boat to the storm, I was not going need the sail . . . . I have done that 4-5 times in the past 20 years. Much easier then taking it home and then bringing it back and much safer than leaving it in the jacklines, even if tied tightly. I see no reason why a couple of people could not do that with the sail for a 33.
FYI. It takes three of us to wrestle the sail off the boat, onto the cart, into the pickup, onto the wheelbarrow, and under cover on my screen porch. It’s a beast! I’m ordering a new sail this year and will be interested if the modern sail fabrics are any lighter.
Sorry to drop this on you, Barry. My recent experience was a new sail that was heavier. The explanation: There are various coatings on new sails that protect against things like salt, sun, etc. They wear off over the years, making the sail lighter than when new. When you get a new sail it will be heavier than the one it replaces. On the plus side, it will be stunning!
I got a superb sail from Travis Blaine at Mack Sails in Stuart, Florida. It was made in their Florida loft, of Challenge Marblehead (weight 6.77 - plenty tough for my cruising NS22). I sent Travis my old North sail and he referred to it for general measurements, etc. The service was exemplary and the sail was done in a few weeks. Five years later, it is still crisp as a Lay’s Tortilla chip and performs beautifully.
I bring this up because their price beat the pants off of everyone else’s. I’m in Canada and, coming from the USA, priced in USD, it STILL beat the pants off of the others. At my club, in Toronto, a few of the boats have Mack Sails and one has a good-looking Mack Pack.
No, I do not work for Mack Sails. I recommend them because, in this case, I received textbook-perfect service at a wonderful price. And, the sail wasn’t made halfway around the world (though I have no problem with the idea of offshore lofts - I imagine that the majority of them are just fine).
Oh … yes, I do feel that my “new” sail is heavier than my old one and is not the easiest thing to flake properly (or even fold to get it off of the boat).
