Does anyone know the recommended breaking strength for the topping lift tackle on a 30? The original spec is 3/8” but there is a wide range in strengths in 3/8” yacht braid. I’m considering replacing mine with 5/16” Marlow doublebraid to reduce friction. At 5600 lbs breaking strength it is stronger than many 3/8” braids but it would be nice to know the spec.
Thanks
Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay,B.C.
IMHO, whatever Hinterhoeller originally used couldn’t have been stronger than 3/8" New England Ropes Sta-Set or Sta-SetX, which have breaking strengths of 5100 or 5300 lbs. respectively.
In case of interest, I replaced the topping lift line on my 26C with 1/4 inch Paraloc Stingray Dyneema Single Braid Rope from R&W Rope, which has 6,530 lbs. breaking strength. It has a really nice, kink-free feel to it that works really well in running through all the twists and turns of a four-part block, along the wishbone, down to the deck, and back to the cockpit.
– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C #143
Thanks Bob,
I had the same thoughts about the strengths of the original 3/8” 35 years ago. Marlow 5/16” is stronger than the 3/8” you mentioned and should reduce the friction loss as well. I’m considering Dyneema too but cost and the necessity to splice a more hand friendly tail on are mitigating concerns.
Paul M
Instead of splicing on a friendly tail, I have found it easy to slide the braided jacket of a larger line onto the end of the Dyneema line, milk it tight and whip the ends
Duck Soup
NS30U 283
Collins Bay
There are lots of good alternatives, and I think both your choices make a lot of sense, Paul and Dale both. I’m sharing my experience not in the spirit of advocacy but in the spirit of giving people information to help weigh tradeoffs and make choices that work for them.
I agree with you about Dyneema line. I actually had plenty of spare Amsteel Dyneema that I could’ve used and chose not to for multiple reasons. It’s strong, but I worried about: (1) tendency to kink; (2) slippery feel on the hand; (3) not as easily gripped by my line clutches.
I chose the Paraloc line because it’s got a different braid than the 12-strand people usually think of with Dyneema (see pictures). But, you’re right, it’s insanely expensive (currently $1.60/ft USD, about twice the cost of polyester double braid).
I admittedly went over the top getting it, but I was so frustrated with how the previous line was resisting all the turns and twists. Before changing, I couldn’t adjust the topping lift without putting it on the winch. After, the resistance was so much less that I was surprised to discover that I can adjust the topping lift just pulling on the line.
It was a splurge. Having seen from it how the rich people live, I’ve gotta say I wish I was rich and could afford to have all my line be that nice.
Sigh. If the preceding paragraph triggers pity on anyone’s part, please donate to, “The Fund for Aging, Balding, Retired Boaters Named Bob.” 
– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C #143
Congratulations on your good purchase Bob. A quick internet search turned up a price of $3.36 USD per foot for 1/4” stingray. That's $4.49 CAD!
By comparison the Marlow doublebraid is $.76 CAD and almost certainly stronger than necessary. My only reservation really is whether the reduction from 3/8” to 5/16” will solve my problem. I’m pretty sure it will as it did wonders for my halyard when I went from 1/2” Samson to 3/8” Marlow. If it doesn’t I will need to look at my blocks.
Thanks for your input, taken exactly as it was meant. 
Paul M
Bob -
I write to inform you that I, genuinely, take pity on you. That said, I am afraid that, after spending a serious fistful on getting my poor boat repaired, I am simply not in a position to contribute, financially, to “The Fund for Aging, Balding, Retired Boaters Named Bob.”
However, I just visited my basement and dug up all of the old line that I do not use anymore on my boat. The sections that are discoloured will bleach out, really. Not to worry. I am in the process of bagging them up and shipping them off to you (collect). I am using UPS - the cheapest.
Sorry, but, in these challenging times, this is the best that I can do but I’m sure that the fund WILL grow, and quickly. You’ll be amazed !!! Oh … before I forget (as, I, too am ageing), I guess that this would not be the appropriate time to mention that I positively covet this new line that you (wisely) purchased … It must be a joy on the hands.
Stay healthy, skipper.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Ernie,
How about if instead, we announce that, “To reward cash donations to ‘The Fund for Aging, Balding, Retired Boaters Named Bob,’ Ernie Abugov will ship donors a quantity of genuine used Nonsuch line, UPS collect”?
This gives you the warm fuzzy of donating to my charity, while rewarding cash donors to my noble cause. ;-))
DARN. Now, in order to not be guilty of hijacking the thread, I somehow have to think of something to say that actually relates to Topping Lift Tackle Strength.
Umm, humma, humma. Ok, how about this – I recently had a chance to do a three-hour interview with Mark Ellis, the designer of our boats. One of his interesting comments was that he regarded the forces on the wishbone boom as one of the most important rigging issues. He said, in fact, that if he had to choose between a carbon fiber mast and an aluminum mast with a carbon fiber wishbone boom, he might prefer the latter. His reason was that the momentum and forces developed as the boom moves around are significant, and the reduction in forces from a lighter boom would be highly desirable.
The connection to Topping Lift Tackle Strength, the topic of this thread, is that making sure that everything connected to the boom is up to snuff is really important.
– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C #143
Director, and sole beneficiary, of The Fund for Aging, Balding, Retired Boaters Named Bob
No need to feel guilty Bob. I have ordered the 5/16” line and it’s only a $55 mistake if I’m wrong. I got what I needed from the thread in the reinforcement of my belief that 1984 3/8” braid probably wasn’t as strong as my 5/16” Marlow.
Hijack away, you have my blessing. 
Paul M
Bob, Paul et al -
I have made the difficult decision NOT to move forward with shipping old line (and other old boat things) to INA members (collect). Somehow, it just doesn’t feel right. Not now, anyway. Regardless of how “noble” the cause may be …
But, seriously, Mark Ellis’ comments on the forces stemming from the boom swinging around, etc., are sobering, indeed. This reinforces the notion of carefully checking all of the topping lift tackle and cable and anything relating to the boom hangers, on a regular basis.
Ernie A. in Toronto
What lines to use on a Nonsuch ?
There is an excellent digital copy of the original User Manual for our unique boats. It is available on the INA sight.
Reason I bring this to your attention is that it has a great rigging and line section which specifies what is required for each line. Mark probably set the specs and signed of on the manual.
I have stuck to that and never had an issue using or getting replacement lines.
However, and the caveat here is I have kept my 30u as original as possible because I believe that what was good for the guys who commissioned the design at RCYC is good for me. That does not mean it has not been maintained and many units have had to be replaced as with all engine parts, water pumps, etc.etc. and so forth. I’m a bit anal that way.
However, that does not denigrate the guys, who quite rightly say, “ it’s my boat and I’ll get it the way I like it” My racing career was mostly on Thunderbirds and my TBird was exactly the way I liked it.
Nevertheless, excuse my rumination and check out the line guide…
It has all the information you need.
Cheers
Brian McCuaig. NS30u
Whitby Marina, Ontario
“Having a Nonsuch is reason for being more cheerful than most."
Brian makes a really good point in about the manuals on the INA on-line web site at Nonsuch.org.
Whenever I’m replacing lines or blocks, I always check the on-line manual for the original specs. The manuals give line sizes for everything, and if you get modern sailing rope of at least that size, it’s hard to go wrong. If you want to go higher tech, the manual doesn’t give rope strengths, but it’s easy to look at the Yale or New England Ropes websites to see the strength of lines they recommend for cruisers. You can then use that number as a baseline constraining candidate higher tech replacements. That, in fact, is what I did in collecting the information for my original post.
The one thing I’ve had trouble with relying on the manuals wrt line is the length. I’ve found that sometimes I’ve needed a bit more line than the manual said.
The manuals aren’t just good for line. They also specify the minimum strength of every block specified for the boats. I always check that before replacing a block. (Although,I hope not to have to again in the future. At this point, not counting the halyard sheave block, there’s only one other block left on the boat that I haven’t had to replace.)
– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C #143
My starting point for this replacement was the published original spec list.
It shows 3/8” braid which is what I have and what several owners have had friction trouble with. The solutions have ranged from replacing boom fairleads or running inside the boom, to high tech lines, to replacing blocks or sheaves. I recently discovered that Marlow doublebraid has a very high strength to diameter ratio vs other polyester braids. For example the 5/16” line I have ordered is rated at 5600lbs breaking strength compared to 3/8” Sta-set for example at 5100 lbs. At $.76 CAD / foot It seemed like the least expensive alternative to try to reduce my friction issue. I should have an answer soon I guess.
Paul M
One must balance reducing the line size for the purpose of less friction against the problem of being able to grab it easily.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~
PS - I sure wish that everyone would remember to sign off with more info. Lately some don't put anything down with their signature. I don't know of any email client that doesn't have a signature option.
I agree and 5/16” is getting small but I think still manageable.
Sorry Joe. I sign off with full info the first time on any thread and after that just my name. If I’m answering directly in my browser in google groups I have to type in my info. When I answer in gmail it will show up in “show quoted text” at the bottom. I can fill it all in every time if that is seen as necessary.
Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay B.C.
Let me second (third?) Joe and Paul’s comments on line size.
The 1/4" high tech stuff I’m using is too small to grip. It’s tempting to wrap it around your hand to make up for that, which is a behavior that down where I live is referred to as a, “Bozo no-no.”
I’ve done it once or twice at the dock, but on the water it’s a good way to get your hand badly squeezed or jerked. When sailing, I always but the line on the winch, not because I still need the leverage, but to protect my hand. Even then, I bunch the line in my hand rather than wrapping it.
On the one hand, I kind of feel like we’ve gotten way down into the weeds on this subject. On the other hand, it continues to fascinate me that there are so many considerations in what seems like such a simple thing on the surface.
The glory of good manuals like we have for our boats is that you don’t have to worry about any of these details if you’re not interested. You can, if you wish, just read and manual and do what it suggests.
– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C #143
I recently replaced my topping lift. I went from half inch that came with the boat and needed two men and a winch to adjust, to three eights Marlow which my daughter can adjust without the winch.
I had considered using small dia. Diema and splicing it to a larger rope for handling. As the 3/8 Marlow is working I will stick with it.
Mike Jennings.
NS005 Salt Coats.
Port Moody BC.
My 8mm Marlow Doublebraid came today. I ran it on with the old line and spliced an eye in the aft end for the becket on my lower block. All set up it appears to move much more easily through all the friction devices on the boom, mast, and deck. More good news is that the 8mm (5/16”) size is not hard to pull by hand at all.
Next time I get out I’ll report on how easily it runs in the real world under sail. With the stiff salty old 3/8” line I could push loose line out on deck ahead of the clutch and the wishbone wouldn’t drop an inch. 
Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.
Thanks for the update, Paul -
How much do you adjust the topping lift anyways? Isn’t it just set for when you are not sailing? Adjusting mine under sail would have no effect because it is completely slack once the sail is up.
Bob Gehrman
NS30U #396 “Quickbeam”
Baltimore, Maryland
Mine is slack pretty much all the time too but sometimes I like to take a little weight off the leach in light wind. Also it gets raised and released when reefing so having it free enough to drop when released is a definite plus.
