Lately I’ve been reading about how some sailors like having a bit of weather helm for safety and to point better to windward? and I remember when I first got my Nonsuch how amazed I was at how balanced the helm was. It seemed like I didn’t have to do anything with the wheel (after I was used to fighting considerable weather helm on my Paceship 26).
I know it depends on the wind, sea state, etc. but has that been others experience as well? Are Nonsuch’s designed to have a very neutral helm?
If the mainsheet is trimmed correctly for the direction of travel, I find I can balance my boat perfectly even in 30-35 knot winds.
Now, all of my sailing is in San Francisco Bay where the wind is generally constant from one direction without significant swells or following seas, so I can’t speak to how she handles in those conditions.
My Nonsuch 30 on the Chesapeake Bay sails extremely well-balanced. I can set the wheel and trim the sail and it will sail itself. If anything jars it the boat points slightly upwind. If that ain’t perfect….
Bob Gehrman
NS30U #396 “Quickbeam”
Baltimore, Maryland
If it’s dark and stormy outsideoutside, I’d certainly rather be inside the cabin. That is what you meant, right ?? On my little NS 22, tiller-equipped, I could leave the helm and she’d just sail along, especially upwind.
Yes, I definitely meant in the cabin or even clubhouse, Michael and Ernie!
It certainly sounds like all the models were designed to be a neutral helm which I like personally and I’m glad my conversion to a conventional boom etc. hasn’t changed that. My estimate is the Centre of Effort might have only moved forward slightly, if at all.
Ken, Don’t leave me hanging like that. You have converted to a conventional boom??? Did you a conversion à la John Newell? Or did you do something else? Details please.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Yes, I did a Conversion “a la John Newell” last summer, Tim. I posted about it under “Trying out the New Rig” in the discussion group Aug. 5/23.
John helped me a great deal with his experience and expertise and I don’t think I would have tried it without that.
To try and save complexity and money, however, I decided to not use a gaff rig and instead just used a second hand sail off a Gemini catamaran. It’s a bit short on the Luff (37’) but the 14’5" foot fit my 15’ boom perfectly. I mounted it 4’ off the deck like John did for visibility and clearance of the dodger and bimini. The sail has a very large roach and 4 full battens which helps maintain the area and shape. I estimate the area is about 380 sq. ft. which is about 90% of the original 420 sq. ft. and the CE is about the same (as discussed above). As a result it seems to perform quite similarly but is much less prone to accidental jybes so you can sail a full run. Reefing is only necessary with more than 20 knots of wind. I sailed it this summer in quite a few different conditions and have been very pleased with the whole set up. The only negative I’ve noticed so far is it takes at least 6 knots of wind to get moving decently, so not great in really light winds.
I hope to get more pictures and maybe videos this summer.
We often sail with the wheel set, sails better than I can by hand! But the sea state needs to be constant Once the wind clocks aft it’s not so effective
I hope to boost light weather performance by being able to slacken my lazy jacks even more in 2024. They constrict the shape of the sail in light airs. To date I have softened the first three feet of my full length battens to get a better airfoil and used a soft batten for my bottom batten. I can’t use soft battens further up as they escape the lazy jacks when dropping sail. Key to performance at low wind speeds is to slacken the foot by releasing the outhaul. (On a standard Nonsuch - the choker)
Regular wishboom Nonsuches have too narrow a wishboom that pinches the sail in light airs. Wylie cats have a much wider spread at the front of the boom to overcome this problem. Foster took a page from the Wylie and widened his wishboom on his 22 Blueberry to be competitive in San Francisco.
On one TGIF last summer we rounded the leeward mark with a bunch of CC 27s in a gusty 15 knot + breeze. I had my son and daughter crewing for the first time in ages. Mascouche got into the groove going to windward and powered away from the fleet much to the surprise and delight of my son. My daughter took a photo of the fleet as we were tacking through the eastern gap. The closest boat with the red hull is Quadrille that started five minutes earlier and sailed the large boat course out to T1. She overtook us on the reach to the finish to finish first overall while we came in second. I confess I was enjoying myself so much at the wheel that I hogged the helm for the whole race. She handled the squalls beautifully, permitting me to gain ground to windward without losing speed.
It was one of the better sails last summer. The lake usually suffers from lack of wind until the fall.
Were you just going to loosen your lazy jacks, John, or try something like Rob mentioned?
I was thinking I would run lines back to the cockpit to release them but would rather not if I don’t have to. So I was wondering about experimenting with shock cords that would allow some give in the system but still tension the stack pack. So far I haven’t found accounts of anyone doing that, though.
If you search rigging lazy jacks you will find lots of idea. The site The Boat Gallery should come up and they have photos similar to the arrangement we had. Very easy and quick but you do go to the mast.
Ken, I added two sets of shock cords from the mast to the front lazy jacks a couple of seasons ago to prevent the halliard wrapping around the mast and fouling the navigation lights. Occasionally I had this issue with my wishbone rig. lt was a nuisance when raising sail when sailing single handed.
John Newell
Mascouche 26C 1
Toronto
Rob - thanks for the tips. That should definitely work and I don’t see why I couldn’t continue the lines around a block at the base of the mast and back to the cockpit.
John - I remember you saying that and I think you raised your attachment points as well.
I was thinking about adding sections of shock cords to the actual suspending lines of the lazy jacks to let the system flex with increased draft of the sail. I would love to hear what you think about that.
Ken.
my 26 has weather helm. It is not uncontrollable but it its there. On cat boats with the main sheet attached at the stern it is trying to pull the stern to leeward. Also as the boat heels the shape of the hull in the water changes and more weather helm develops. Maybe John Newell can step in here, but my recollection is that John said when the first 26 was taken out for a test sail the weather helm was so bad the boat was almost uncontrollable. She was quickly brought back in and the size of the rudder was increased.
The general consensus in the material I read is that a small amount of weather helm is good. It is a safety feature in that if you fall over board the boat will head up into the wind and stop. With lee helm it will fall off the wind and sail away. A bit of weather helm will also help you find the “groove”. A completely neutral helm has very little feel. A bit of weatehr helm will also turn the keel slightly which allows it to generate lift. From what I read you do not want more than 5 degrees of turn on the rudder. After that the rudder starts acting like a brake. One year when I had the boat out of the water I used a hand held compass and turned my rudder until it 5 degrees off center. I then checked the wheel. With 5 degrees of rudder the wheel had one quarter of a turn. Generally I try to sail with about 1/2 of that much helm. Easing the sheet will generally help reduce heel and weather helm. If I have to ease the sheet until the front of the sail is luffing before the weather helm is reduced to an acceptable amount, it is time for a reef.
Like Thor I will often set La Reina up so she is sailing nicely and then lock the wheel. The wheel will not be centered when I lock it but will have about an 1/8th of a turn to leeward. She will sail herself when set up like that. If she starts to fall off, the weather helm increases and brings her back to windward. If the wind increase the weather helm pushes her up until the sail starts to depower, when she will fall off. Many years ago I went for a sail with Jim Chamberlain and Ed Botterall on Boo Knows (26C) in about 20 to 22 knots of breeze. Ed had us fly the full sail as we beat to windward and then lock the wheel down. Even in those conditions Boo Knows sailed very nicely. In the gusts the rail would start to go under but then she would round up a bit, sit back up and fall off back to the course. We did have at least 5 degrees of turn on the rudder and maybe more.
I went back through the old issues of the Update. In the May 1992 issue Klaus Naeraa (some material shows his name spelt “Naerra”) had an article about modifications he made on his 30 and a sister ship in Denmark, including modifications to the rudder. The issue makes a good read. At page 4 is a short guide to sail trim courtesy of Halsey Sails ( I suspect Ed Botterell was the author). The article by Klaus starts at page 5. The first item is a redesigned choker block that looks very much like the one Murray Cressman had for sell. I don’t know who came up with the idea first. Next Klaus talks about the leads for the topping lift, then he moves on to discussions about the rudder. Klaus thought the steering was too light. He made major modifications to the rudder shape and added a skeg.
The Summer 1993 issue has more from Klaus but he does not talk about the rudder. He does talk about installing a constant velocity U-joint to reduce vibrations. He used an Aquadrive. A more recent versions the Bruntons’ Sigma Drive, which my brother and I have both installed to good effect. I included reference to the issue because of the article from Ed Botterell on heavy weather sailing, which starts at page 7.
In the December 1993 issue Klaus reports on the results of his modifications. I will not repeat them hear but rather will let you read them for yourselves.
I find it interesting that you find you have weather helm when most of the others seem to find it quite neutral. Maybe when they talk about “setting the wheel” and letting it go they are referring to compensating with a few degrees of lee helm, like you have done, so there actually is a bit of weather helm?
The report that the first 26’s had severe weather helm seems odd to me. My understanding is that that is caused by the centre of effort in the sail being too far aft of the centre of lateral resistance. That is an inherent design flaw that isn’t easily corrected and it doesn’t seem right that they would just try to compensate for it with a larger rudder.
I think you make some good points about the desirability of have a bit of weather helm, which lines up with what I have read as well. Namely the safety benefit & the improved feel. You mentioned the lift effect on the rudder, which is something I read about as well and doesn’t seem to come up much. Some lee rudder should create lift and cause the boat to point better to windward. You think racers would love that but maybe it isn’t a significant factor.
What I’m getting from this discussion is that our boats were designed to have a neutral or slight weather helm, which I think is ideal. Why Klaus Naeraa
would want to mess with that is curious, but we know sailors love to tweak things and he seemed happy with his modifications. For me, I’m happy the way it is!
